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To: spirited irish; Kevmo; tacticalogic; All
By the way, for anybody who is truly interested -- and I mean seriously interested -- in the historicity of the New Testament, I could not more highly recommend another very spirited Irishman, former Catholic priest, John Dominic Crossan.

If I may use the term, Crossan is religiously historical, reducing the New Testament to what can be justified based on critical textual analyses.

No, no, don't go there if you're looking for religious inspiration, you won't necessarily find it.
What you will find is serious history from a historian's perspective.
Of course, you may not agree with Crossan, you may conclude that Crossan has excluded too much of this, or allowed to much of that.

But my point is, Crossan is writing history -- what we can believe from a historian's perspective.
If your own religious faith includes much more than Crossan allows, you will at least come to understand where history leaves off, and your religious faith begins.

Good luck!

1,734 posted on 12/18/2013 7:47:15 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK; YHAOS; betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Crossan and Robert Funk founded the Jesus Seminar, a group of academics studying the historical Jesus, and Crossan served as co-chair for its first decade. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dominic_Crossan)

Spirited: The Jesus Seminar consists of Gnostics and it exists to paganize Christianity:

Excerpts: The Paganization of New Testament Studies by Dr. Peter Jones http://truthxchange.com/about/staff/dr-peter-jones/

The Gnostic Jesus [113] comes in a number of forms, many directly from the Jesus Seminar: peasant cynic, Jewish teacher, social revolution, apocalyptic prophet, the first feminist, mystical guru. Robert Funk, founder of the Jesus Seminar gives us his take on Jesus. His goal is to liberate Jesus “from the scriptural and creedal and experiential prisons in which we have incarcerated him.” This new Jesus is a teacher rather than a divine being, emphasizing forgiveness and freedom over punishment and piety, endorsing “protected recreational sex among consenting adults.” [114]

The approach of Marcus Borg, another fellow of the Seminar is an interesting case study in the nature of this new Gnosticizing quest. In his writings, Borg begins by noting a “major shift,” what he calls “the lessening interest in eschatology and apocalyptic.” This, you remember, was what Schweitzer noted about the liberal 19th century Jesuses. Borg is a man with a mission. He believes his “charismatic” Jesus “radically challenges the flattened sense of reality pervading the modern world view, and much of the mainline church,” in other words, a purely this worldly, social reformer, the result of previous NT critical work!

Borg hails the emergence of new questions-the questions are less specifically Christian, and more global, comparing Jesus to other religious figures; as well as new methods-since past methods were narrowly historical-the new are based on insights from the history of religions, cultural anthropology and the social sciences. [115]

Here is scholarship preparing the bed it intends to lie in, perhaps without even realizing that this is what is going on. For Borg then goes on to underline a new consensus. It is a consensus merely reflecting the limited number of groups that employ them.

Read more: http://truthxchange.com/articles/2003/02/01/the-paganization-of-new-testament-studies/


1,735 posted on 12/18/2013 12:16:27 PM PST by spirited irish
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To: BroJoeK; spirited irish; All; tacticalogic

My recommendation is to read the book
“The New Testament Documents - Are They Reliable?” by FF Bruce.

The ENTIRE book is transcribed here on FR. So it’s free and as accessible as reading our posts.

The New Testament Documents - Are They Reliable?
Christian Corps International Libraries ^ | not mentioned | F.F. Bruce

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2316798/posts


1,762 posted on 12/19/2013 1:41:10 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: BroJoeK; spirited irish; tacticalogic; All

By the way, for anybody who is truly interested — and I mean seriously interested —
***I should have checked Crossan’s Wikipedia page before engaging with you. Crossan is a prime example of an idealogically driven revisionist, basically a heretic.

in the historicity of the New Testament, I could not more highly recommend another very spirited Irishman, former Catholic priest, John Dominic Crossan.
***Crossan is no more interested in historicity than the Bolsheviks were.

If I may use the term, Crossan is religiously historical,
***Having gone a few rounds with you, I see that you aren’t quite naive, so it’s obviously you were pushing an agenda, idealogically twisting history in revisionism and even crossing the line to heresy.

reducing the New Testament to what can be justified based on critical textual analyses.
***No, just reducing the New Testament. That’s his aim, and appears to be your aim. FReepers who are interested in reading heresy would be well recommended to follow Crossan and uphold his quackery & the ridiculous Jesus Project. Historicity by way of voting! Amazing. Face palm amazing.


1,922 posted on 12/20/2013 11:50:47 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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