What, did you stay up late trying to figure some way to misunderstand a simple idea?
I said that the young Lincoln admired Paine.
Did the young YHAOS never admire somebody already dead?
YHAOS: "Paine died in poverty, unforgiven for his betrayal."
In fact, Paine was rewarded rather handsomely for his service by the US Congress, plus the states of New York and Pennsylvania.
Yes, he may well have squandered most of his earnings in England and France -- supporting the French Revolution.
But in 1802 Paine was invited to return to the United States by his friend, President Jefferson, and when Paine died at age 72 in 1809 he was buried on his 320 acre farm in New Rochelle, a gift from the State of New York.
Paine also owned a house in Bordontown City, NJ.
Paine's funeral was sparsely attended.
The newspapers' obituary read in part:
YHAOS: "Why are you buying the America-haters schtick?"
Sorry, FRiend, but it's your associate, the good spirited irish, who has made endless hammering on "gnostics" and Freemasons her work on this thread.
I have merely tried to defend our Freemason Founders against any association with her hammering.
Now, finally, after 1,500++ posts, we're starting to get some:
YHAOS: "Or, perhaps you meant to say that Abe was a great admirer of the Paine of 1776, overlooking the subsequent actions Paine took which utterly destroyed his prior reputation and standing with the American people."
YHAOS: "This conversation has previously taken place on FR (sans Lincolns grandfather).
Perhaps you suffer from long-term memory loss (December 5, 2009, and thereabouts).
I know I do. Old age is my excuse. Whats yours?"
My memory is still pretty good, but didn't recall discussing Paine before, or what a context for it might have been.
So a quick word search shows that post #1,536 of a 1/4/2009 thread (addressed to YHAOS, tacticalogic & betty boop among others) included this statement:
In fact, Paine was a Deist, and that is the only other mention of him I made before this thread.
Interesting to note some of the other comments in that old post... ;-)
YHAOS: "...we forget how bitterly he subsequently betrayed that same Spirit.
But the Americans of the Revolution never forgot, and never forgave.
The Abe Lincoln of the 19th Century, being a consummate student of American History, would know this."
In fact, even in his old age, Paine was befriended by President Jefferson, and after his death, admired by young Abraham Lincoln.
But more than anyone else, Paine was befriended and helped by Benjamin Franklin, who originally encouraged Paine to leave England for America, in 1774.
Whether Franklin would have approved of Paine's views of, say 1796, is doubtful, but most likely because of their impolitic nature, rather than substance.
Bottom line: Paine was born European not American, and so in the end he was held in contempt by most -- but not all -- Americans at the time of his death in 1809.
Of course . . . one dead somebody being the Thomas Paine of 1776 or even the Thomas Paine of 1791 and The Rights of Man.
But where says some is the king of America? I'll tell you Friend, he reigns above, and doth not make havoc of mankind like the Royal of Britain. Yet that we may not appear to be defective even in earthly honors, let a day be solemnly set apart for proclaiming the charter; let it be brought forth placed on the divine law, the word of God; let a crown be placed thereon, by which the world may know, that so far as we approve of monarchy, that in America the law is king. For as in absolute governments the king is law, so in free countries the law ought to be king; and there ought to be no other."
. . . . . Thomas Paine, Thoughts of the present state of American Affairs, Common Sense, 1776
I asked for clarification. Through the fog of your Alpha Male pretentiousness, you clarified. Which word didnt you understand?
Among other words you dont seem to understand (or do you?):
Its been my experience that the arguments of 0bamatrons do not rise above the pyramids 4th level (contradiction), and generally sputters and stalls out at attempts to rise above the second (Ad Hominem) level.
Yes or no?
The simple matter is this whole struggle is all about seizing the control of power and wealth: power over Conservatives and the confiscation of Conservative wealth (Liberals will surrender their very souls with barely a whimper - if even so much as that).
Yes or no?
Put simply, a fight over money and control of our backsides.
Yes or no?
Liberals have taken over Science and use it to demonstrate their superiority over Conservatives.
Yes or no?
Liberals do not believe anything of value exists beyond backsides.
Yes or no?
It is not the Judeo-Christian Tradition that mistakenly thinks Science is an ethical and moral system designed to guide us in the value judgments with which we must deal.
Yes or no?
The truth is both Liberals and Scientists know better, but dare not admit it.
Yes or no?
In fact, Paine was rewarded rather handsomely for his service by the US Congress
In fact, Paine died in poverty, unforgiven for his betrayal of the American People.
Only six mourners came to his funeral...
Included among those six, neither you, I, nor Thomas Jefferson?