I was involved in a black flash mob incident at the National Zoo (On African-American Family Day) a few years ago. I was with two adult women and nine little kids, and, needless to say, legal CCW holder in 34 states that I am, was obeying Congress’ ban on CCW in the ten-mile square for which they legislate “in all cases whatsoever”, and was therefore unarmed.
We were terrified, the kids were sobbing, we were 30 feet away from a stabbing, but none of us got hurt.
Serious question for you shoot-backers (with specific reference to mob scenarios). Suppose I had had my Glock 17 (I usually carry something smaller, but just suppose). With a roiling mob of 80-100 individuals bent on homicide, some with edged weapons 30-50 feet away, what’s the right CCW-holder’s defensive strategy?
When Trayvon is pounding your head into the concrete, you shoot him. When confronted with 2-3 attackers given the right pre-attack cues, you shoot inside of 7-10 yards. That’s clear.
But 50? 100? Not so clear. You could drop (maybe) 7-10 before being overwhelmed and lynched. Those you had a duty to protect would be savaged (at least).
It would serve the greater good, in terms of future deterrence, to shoot it out but I don’t know that it is the most successful outcome for you and yours at that point.
And.....if you actually protected yourself and family (group) and shot 6 or 7 of the animals your life would be worthless and a living hell from that point on.
You (if white) would undergo a Travon Martin white lynching in court and end up in jail with a life sentence along with financial ruin and a constant fear for your life while surrounded by other black animals in the cage you are staying in for life.
Remember: ONLY WHITES ARE RACISTS and anything you do or say against black or brown animals is hate speech or a hate crime. Hate crimes only apply to whites.
Have you ever watched video of large crowds being fired into and people dropping dead where they stand. They stampede killing many more of their own crowd.
LLS
Depends.
We’re not talking troops here. They’re a mob. What are the odds a mob will press an attack against an armed man standing his ground vs. break and run? There might be studies on this but I have not seen them. I think they would break and run with the first few shots, though.
Real problem is the aftermath. You’d be screwed in the courts.
Sorry, didn’t think my post required the /s. I thought it was obvious. Clearly artillery would be the correct response. Maybe we could get some of Assad’s bug spray.
Large crowds get brave precisely because of their number. When confronted by someone with a firearm who clearly will use that firearm or actually discharges it, however, they generally RUN in the opposite direction. People riot because it is fun. The possibility of being shot reduces the level of fun dramatically.
All they can do is try to outflank you - and that is after they get a second wind of courage. The key is to keep moving after firing your weapon. Your movement - especially if you can move out of sight - helps to confuse the crowd. By the way, when shooting into the crowd shoot those closest to you, and then those who are largest. That teaches a simple lesson: Get near me you die...and...Just because you’re big doesn’t mean you can’t die.
“...When confronted with 2-3 attackers given the right pre-attack cues, you shoot inside of 7-10 yards. That’s clear.
But 50? 100? Not so clear. You could drop (maybe) 7-10 before being overwhelmed and lynched. Those you had a duty to protect would be savaged (at least).”
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You’d still want to use your weapon if you or friends were being attacked and were in fear of loss of life or great bodily harm. There’s nothing like the very loud sound of gunfire being directed their way to send “yutes” scurrying away.
Nowadays, just carrying a weapon is insufficient when in “indian country”. You need extra magazines and, if possible, a back up weapon.
Most crowds like that will break if you nail the first couple in front.
No one wants to be “next” to be awarded a Third eye...
Every situation is different, but with a Glock 17, I think the critical factor is terrain and when to draw, and if you fire warning shots. I would look for terrain/buildings to have your back covered: you do not want to be stuck in the middle of a 360* mob when you draw.
As the mob threat becomes apparent, first step is try to get out of there, obviously. If that is not possible, at least back up to a wall, find and alley, even parked vehicles. Only with your back covered, draw the pistol, assume an aggressive stance, shout back off or I’ll shoot you dead, etc. If they continue to advance, fire a shot over them with the gun clearly raised at 45*. (Yes, I know, it has to come down somewhere, but the shot needs to be “seen” as well as heard.)
If they continue to advance, (not likely), then you defend yourself when they are “danger close,” as you try to move laterally along your wall or other cover to get out of there.
If you had those children with you, you need to keep them behind you, if possible.
I’ve never done the above, but that’s my best guess for what to do.
If it were one on 80-100, then I can see your point.
Idealist that I am, I guess if EVERYONE were carrying and willing to present a united front, as those attacking are united, then it could be effective.
When the deadly threat manifests, pick two, several yards apart. Double tap each. The crowd will scatter like a flock of starlings with a cat tossed in the middle of ‘em.
Obviously, run if you can. Get your back against something if you must and sing “Men of Harlech” as loud as you feel comfortable. Have a spare mag or two.
Oh, and stay out of blue state hell holes like that.
You are assuming that after the first few were down dead or screaming that the others would press the attack, instead of trampling one another trying to flee. Mobs are made up of cowards. Not something I'd bet the lives of my grandkids on, though.
My personal plan should I ever find myself in that situation:
1) Retreat as far as possible to a defensible position, where my back is secure, and there is some cover.
2) By demeanor, make it evident that I will not fire unless under threat.
3) If advanced upon anyway, shoot center-mass at the closest one. Repeat as needed.
Having been in a situation once where I had to face down a mob of about 7 or 8 armed with just a knife, I learned a very important thing: as a group, they knew that they could take me; as individuals, they knew I would kill the first one to get close to me; no individual wanted to be first. It doesn't matter how big the group is, if nobody wants to be first.