Hagan demands review of NC voter law

thehill.com ^ | August 13, 2013 | Mario Trujillo

[xzins]

Actually, I want your legislature and not just your senator to elect your US senator. I want your senator to look to the state as his boss and not to the fed.

[P-Marlowe]

Why do you think that it is the Constitutional Conservatives like Mark Levin and the Tea Party people who are leading the charge to repeal the 17th Amendment? If the old system will be better for the libs, then why aren’t they on board? Why do they all prefer the status quo?

[CharlesWayneCT]

Yep. I can’t imagine a founding father who would have expected a Seantor to turn the federal government against their own state.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[riri]

He was my OBGYN. An awesome man and doctor.

First time I had a visit, I saw a copy of Liberal Fascism in his office. I knew he was a keeper.

[BillyBoy]

>> Why do you think that it is the Constitutional Conservatives like Mark Levin and the Tea Party people who are leading the charge to repeal the 17th Amendment? <<

Why did Tea Party groups lead the charge to nominate terrible flawed candidates like Sharon Angle and Ken Buck? Why did Mark Levin endorse RINOs Orrin Hatch & Jeff Flake in the GOP primary? Why Ann Coulter endorse Romney in the primary and join the board of the GOProud "gay rights" group? I disagreed with them on all those things. Did you? Plenty of prominent self-proclaimed "conservative leaders" have taken stupid positions before that did more harm than good to our side. This is one of them.

>> If the old system will be better for the libs, then why aren’t they on board? <<

Because unlike you, they realize this is political poison and they'd get killed at the polls if they ran for office on a platform of "I'm going to take away your right to elect your Senator and let politicians choose your Senators for you". They can get a ton of mileage by bashing the GOP for foolishly pursuing this. They're "against" it the same way they were "against" the President taking lots of vacation time and cuddling up the Saudis when Bush was in power. And just like how they endlessly bashed Bush for doing those things, they'd be more than overjoyed to DO IT THEMSELVES if the got the opportunity and could get away with it.

>> Why do they all prefer the status quo? <<

If that's true, why didn't Obama use the bully pulpit and use his "star power" as President-elect to push for the Illinois state government to hold a special election for his vacant Senate seat? Didn't he claim he believed voters should make that choice? Instead, he was fine with allowing the corrupt, impeached Illinois Governor (Rod Blagojevich) to APPOINT a person to fill his senate seat, and give Illinois voters NO SAY in the process. Funny how he'd act that if he "strongly believes" that the voters and not the politicians should be selecting the U.S. Senator, as he claimed in 2008 in order to win an election. Gee, it seems Obama was "against" state politicians choosing Senators the same way he was "against" gay marriage -- as in "gosh darn, polls show most Americans are against this stuff, so I have to PRETEND I'm against it too, in order to get elected" Interesting, isn't it?

[Impy]

They do work for the federal government, in a literal sense. And they always have. But that’s neither here nor there.

More importantly NO DEMOCRAT OR RINO IS AGAINST A POWER HUNGRY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Do you understand? A Senator’s liberalism is NOT DETERMINED BY THEIR METHOD OF ELECTION. RINOS and democrats in state legislatures ARE NOT AGAINST FEDERAL POWER. How can you people not grasp that? Are you daft? You know what they really love? Federal funding for their pet projects.

For cripes sake the state legislatures ratified the 16th amendment!! They approved the federal income tax! They also banned booze due to popular fervor over the issue, and none of them stopped drinking. BTW they ratified the 17th as well.

We don’t have a problem with the federal government in this country we have a problem with all government in this country. Federal, state and local.

State governments like all government SUCK because they are controlled by politicians. Allowing a group of politicians to elect the Senate is absolutely certain to result in worse class of Senators. Even if it would give the GOP the majority at moment (the democrats would have had a large majority for 50 years straight until the GOP started taking over state houses in the 90’s so maybe kiss the Reagan tax cut goodbye) fewer of them would be conservative. Texas and Utah 2 of our best states are infested with RINO state legislators for Christ’s sake. They are no different from congressional Republicans. Say goodbye to Ted Cruz and Mike Lee and say hello to David Dewhurst and welcome back Bob Bennett. Sure as hell won’t be many “tea party” Senators.

I urge you to get away from fantasies that sound good in your head and make you feel smart and get familiar with reality.

P-Marlowe, I don’t need Mark Levin to tell me what to think and you dropping his name isn’t an argument. When did he become God? Is that why you’re for this? Cause a few talking heads you like are for it? I wish I knew the origins of this nonsense. The first person I remember hearing spout it was Zell Miller but I’m certain it predates that. Bad ideas have a way of spreading in intellectual circles. I get the appeal, return to way it was done in the past and everything will be better.

Well no it won’t, that’s a paleocon fantasy just like hiking tariffs (another paleocon pet issue). Why do you think this amendment was passed? People were fed up with the corruption and deadlocks when the legislatures failed to elect.

By the way, this scheme

1)Will never happen
2)Would be disastrous at the polls in the we actually ran on it, associating ourselves with it undermines the conservative cause

[Lancey Howard]

Don’t Democrats need ID to get their welfare, food stamps, Section 8 Housing, and the rest of the handouts?
What’s the big deal about the moochers using the same ID to vote?

[dennisw]

The 17th Amendment basically destroyed the 10th Amendment and transferred all that State power to Washington.

You are right about this but I wonder if this was the intent of the 17th Amendment or an unforeseen consequence?

 

 

What would the Senate look like without the 17th Amendment?

Scott Bomboy April 8, 2013

It’s the 100th anniversary of the 17th Amendment, leading us to consider what today’s U.S. Senate would look like if its members weren’t directly elected by voters.

Source: Wikimedia Commons.

The answer is simple: It would be probably be controlled by the Republicans, with a chance that it could be a filibuster-proof majority.

Related Link: Happy Birthday, 17th Amendment!

Given that the House is already controlled by the GOP, laws enacted by the Democrats in the past two years may not have fared well with a Republican-controlled Congress.

Prior to 1913, when the 17th Amendment was ratified, state legislatures elected two U.S. senators to represent them in Congress.

Members in each state House and each state Senate, in most cases, would meet separately to pick a candidate as its representative in the U.S. Senate.

 

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks justiceseeker93.

[dearolddad]

I’d like to ask Sen. Hagan if I have to show a photo ID to get into her office in DC.

[Truth2012]

I wonder if our paths ever crossed paths at his office. Small world.

[fieldmarshaldj]

So you want Illinois to elect Communist Democrats for perpetuity, preventing the likes of Peter Fitzgerald, the last great and Conservative Senator, from EVER being elected ? Because guess what, you’re going to make that a reality for at least 40 Senate seats at the minimum. If I were a Democrat, I’d be all for repeal of the 17th, because I’d never have to be accountable again.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I don’t know any Tea Party people involved in this crank notion. I can tell you that there was a movement recently in my state legislature to try to remove our right to vote on our Senators, and it went over like a lead balloon. Conservatives know that placing elections in the hands of these politicians means perpetual empowerment of the elites at the expense of the people.

[fieldmarshaldj]

That Republican "majority" would be non-Conservative. It would be a plethora of big government squishes, no Tea Partiers (no Cruz, no Lee, no Paul), with an all-Communist Democrat opposition, of which 40 or more seats would be perpetually in their hands. It would also be hopelessly corrupt, just as the body was when the 17th was ratified.

[P-Marlowe]

If the Senate represents “The People” rather than the States, then why should we even have a Senate. The House is supposed to represent “The People” and that is why we always had direct elections for the House. If the Senate also represents “The People”, then the Senste is a redundant bastard child that doubles the opportunity for crony corruption.

Would you favor an amendment eliminating the Senate altogether?

[BillyBoy]

>> The first person I remember hearing spout it was Zell Miller but I’m certain it predates that. <<

That's another bizarro aspect of this. The anti-17th crowd seems to also adore Zig Zag Zell, and heap praise on him as some kind of heroic conservative savior. Of course Zig Zag Zell (a lifelong Democrat, as he frequently reminded us) favored politicians appointing Senators. He wouldn't have gotten a Senate career without it.

If Zig Zag Zell had replaced an Al Franken-type commie RAT, then sure, we'd have to admit that his appointment to the Senate was an improvement. However, Zig Zag Zell fans seem to have amnesia and don't remember that Zig Zag Zell was appointed to replace a rock solid conservative Republican who died. His predecessor Paul Coverdell had a 100% ACU rating. Zell's appointment by evil DemonRat Roy Barnes moved the Senate to the LEFT, and allowed the Dems to take control of the Senate when Jeffords defected and so-called "conservative" Zig Zag voted with his party to put Daschle in power.

You could make a good case that Zig Zag Zell was "the best we could get" under the circumstances, given that the person who appointed him was a scumbag liberal Democrat, and that Zig Zag turned out to be far more conservative than anyone expected, but NOT that Zig Zag moved the Senate to the right or voted with the GOP when it counted.

So basically, a state politician overrides the wishes of the voters who elected a Republican in that seat, appointing a Dem who makes the Senate more liberal. Some "conservatives" here applaud that, and applaud Zig Zag for pushing for it to happen in EVERY senate seat. I swear, some conservatives are their own worst enemy.

[fieldmarshaldj]

By that argument, why should the 49 states (save Nebraska) that have Senates exist ? Those Senates are all elected by the people. You could make the argument that those Senates were supposed to reflect the interests of the individual counties (as many did, until the Supreme Court ruled they had to reflect and be apportioned based on population). No, I believe there should be two bodies and have elected officials reflecting the will of the state at large. The Senate also serves the function of slowing down the House and its initiatives (for better or for worse).

I don’t mention it often, but I favor repeal of the 26th Amendment. Unless they are members of the military, 18 year olds should not be voting. It should be returned to 21 (if not 25). I don’t believe in limitless suffrage, either. I believe those employed by the federal government (again, with the exception of military/law enforcement) should also forfeit the right to vote, since by virtue of their employment, they must vote for larger government in order to retain their jobs.

I also believe in the abolition of civil service and a return to patronage. Eliminating armies of perpetual bureaucrats supporting limitless government expansion is paramount (and those hordes, almost uniformally Democrats, undermine Republican administrations and any attempts to shrink or reform government). By patronage, a given administration brings in their own people and exit at the end of the administration. No lifelong jobs, no lifelong benefits, and NO governmental unions.

These initiatives would go a helluva lot further into restoring small government than repealing the 17th.

[Impy]

The Senate provides equal suffrage to the states irrespective of population which is very important. Wouldn’t you say that’s a more important distinction from the House than the method of election? I sure would.

[Impy]

I see it as an outgrowth of the dixiecrat/paleocon/neo-confederate faction, it all seems to tie in with that nonsense. A lot of born and bred democrats in that crowd. Andrew Jackson democrats rather than Barack Obama democrats, but still. Or perhaps I should say Calhoun democrats since Jackson stood up to the nullifiers and secessionists and this crowd seems to be down with that.