Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip...
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.
What is with it with Catholics that are always saying things that don't mean what is said but mean what the Church says it means? He said what he said.
Maybe the Catholic hierarchy needs lessons in how to communicate more clearly so they do not continually say things that need to be *interpreted* to be taken *correctly* and lay Catholics do not have to waste so much time in damage control trying to reconcile their comments and explain them away to non-Catholics, who can clearly understand what was plainly said.
He said what he said and it's in direct violation of the Scripture that Catholics claim the church wrote and has the only authority to interpret.
1 Corinthains 5:1-13 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you areto judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
by PHILIP PULLELLA
Published on the 29 July 2013
AFP
POPE Francis, in some of the most compassionate words from any pontiff on gays, said they should not be judged or marginalised and should be integrated into society, but he reaffirmed Church teaching that homosexual acts are a sin.
In a broad-ranging 80-minute conversation with journalists on the plane bringing him back from a week-long visit to Brazil, Francis also said the Roman Catholic Church’s ban on women priests was definitive, although he would like them to have more leadership roles in administration and pastoral activities.
Francis defended gays from discrimination in what was his first news conference since being elected pontiff in March, but also referred to the Catholic Church’s universal Catechism, which says that while homosexual orientation is not sinful, homosexual acts are.
“If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?” the pope said.
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society,” he said, speaking in Italian.
“The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem,” he said.
Francis was answering a question about reports of a “gay lobby” in the Vatican.
“You see a lot written about the gay lobby. I still have not seen anyone in the Vatican with an identity card saying they are gay,” he joked.
Addressing the issue of women priests, the pope said, “The Church has spoken and says ‘no’ … that door is closed.” It was the first time he had spoken in public on the subject.
“We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more …,” he said in answer to a question during a remarkably frank conversation with Vatican journalists.
“But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed,” he said referring to a document by the late pontiff which said the ban was part of the infallible teaching of the Church.
The Church teaches that it cannot ordain women because Jesus willingly chose only men as his apostles. Advocates of a female priesthood say he was acting according to the customs of his times.
Many in the Church, even those who oppose a female priesthood, say women should be given leadership roles in the Church and the Vatican administration.
Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
These statements are juxtaposed as if they contradict each other. But they don't—because they are on different subjects. Both are true.
The first has always been church teaching, and I doubt that the Pope who referred to the homosexual "marriage" movement as inspired by the devil hopes to change this. He also described the "Gay Lobby" within the Vatican as demonic. He knows what he is up against.
The second statement is about sin and the sacrament of Confession. Yes, sins that are validly confessed and absolved are forgiven and forgotten. Not to say a priest wouldn't be reassigned, disciplined, or even laicized based on his behavior. Many have been, including heads of international religious orders.
Not to understand the distinction between forgiveness (which belongs to God, through the priest) and prudent hiring policies is typical of media types—who also don't want to understand. The same applies to some Protestants. It should be borne in mind that at least the Catholic Church has a central authority from whom coherent and consistent teaching is demanded.
Why don’t YOU tell the Pope how to comunicate...he obviously needs YOUR advice on scripture.ha.
It’s the Catholic way. They promulgate a doctrine, but it is so convoluted that no one knows what the heck it means. So they kill a forest worth of trees trying to explain what it is they mean. By the time it is done they forgot what it was they were talking about in the first place.
Keep in mind, though, that Pope Francis said he woulkd not judge a person for his sexual orientation. Orientation is a pattern of sexual attraction: it is not the same as conduct.
A sin must comprise "my thoughts and my words, what I have done and what I have failed to do." "Thoughts" in this case means "voluntary thoughts": thoguhts which we entertain or even pursue, such as lustful fantasies and the like.
Thoughts which are outside of voluntary control (e.g. dreams, spontaneous transient notions, etc.) are not sins. They can be temptations, in which case they should be resisted.
Scripture says Our Lord was tempted in every way that we are, but without sin.
Thanks for the heads up, metmom.
Looks like an interesting thread, I’ll try to find time to read it later.
The reason why some are not specific in their statements?
Occasionally, but not as often was one would think, what is said might not mean what is heard.
In addition, it's because if one does or does not say what they mean, it often does not mean what is specifically said or not said.
I am not Roman Catholic so what the Pope says doesn’t concern me except as it concerns all Christians when someone is teaching doctrine contrary to Scripture. God has declared homosexuality to be an abomination and nobody can change that. If the Pope leads homosexuals (or any sinners) to believe they do not have to repent and will be accpetable to God, he isn’t doing them any favors.
No amount of good will or good works saves a person. Only faith in Christ and repentance leads to salvation.
>> “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” Francis asked. <<
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Unbelievable!
So much for Francis, he’ll apparently make an excellent “False Prophet.”
Get readfy for a wild ride.
That is an excellent response. Great job.