Meramec float trip ends in fatal shooting after dispute over property rights along waterway

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | July 23, 2013 | Kim Bell, Paul Hampel

[rwa265]

It was just supposed to be a pit stop.

A group of family and friends on an annual float trip stopped at a gravel bar in the Meramec on Saturday afternoon to refresh drinks and answer the call of nature, according to Loretta Dart, who was on the trip. Her cousin went into the woods to urinate.

In doing so, he apparently ignited the ire of a property owner along the river fed up with people traipsing on his property. James Robert Crocker, 59, confronted the group with a 9 mm handgun, and in an altercation over property rights that rapidly escalated to gunfire, fatally shot Dart’s husband in the head from a few feet away, authorities say.

[Gadsden1st]

“We don’t have a stand-your-gravel-bar law yet”

How about Texas?

[Kartographer]

"The property owner didn’t own the gravel bar"

But the story said thatHer cousin went into the woods to urinate. Well I doubt the 'woods' were on the sand bar. Personally I would have a problem with people constaintly using my property as a public toilet. The ordor from the urine it would destroy for my own recorational use the property the vegatation thereby causeing soil run off and erosion. If I told someone to get off my property and then the replied that they wouldn't and started toward me with a rock (especially if they were drunk), well too bad for them they just brought a rock to a gun fight.

[nathanbedford]

Loretta Dart said they stopped at the gravel bar before 2 p.m. but weren’t there long before Crocker confronted them with a gun, starting with her cousin who went to urinate. The man said they were on private property and to get out. He waved his gun around and fired it in the air and into the ground near Paul Dart and her cousin, Loretta Dart said. (Emphasis supplied)

Crocker told a detective that men were yelling at him “stating that they weren’t going to leave and that the gravel bar was public property,” court records say. At one point, Crocker told Kling, “I have the power here. I have the power,” Kling said. Kling said, “Put that gun down and we’ll see who has the power,” according to Loretta Dart. Kling, 24, of Robertsville, said he and his stepfather were trying to reason with the man. Then, Loretta Dart said, her cousin picked up a rock. (Crocker told police the man had a rock in each hand.) Her husband stood between her cousin and the gunman. (Emphasis supplied)

“My husband tried to calm the guy down,” Loretta Dart said. “He went to the guy’s arm to try to stop him, but the guy jerked back and popped him in the face.” (Emphasis supplied)

Not an easy case.

It seems to me that the right to self-defense was forfeited as at the time Crocker began shooting. He certainly committed a crime at that point and an assault as well. It is hard to understand how he could avail himself of the right of self-defense when he commenced a chain of events that caused the deceased's party to arm themselves with rocks. It is hard understand how he would have the right to self-defense under the circumstances.

But we have heard really only one side of the story.

[SoFloFreeper]

But either way, he said, “it obviously doesn’t have anything to do with people shooting people. We don’t have a stand-your-gravel-bar law yet.”

Oh brother.

Look at the suspected shooter in the picture. Looks like a real winner.

[from occupied ga]

but damn just get a dog!

Best idea yet.

[chae]

As I read it, he yelled at them to get off his property, and instead of doing so the husband grabbed the homeowner’s arm, so the homeowner shot him.
I would try to make a case saying he was shot in self defense.

[listenhillary]

The gravel bars are often covered with willow thickets. It sounds like the shooting occurred on the gravel bar.

“On Monday afternoon, empty medical supply packets lay next to the bloody spot on the gravel bank where first responders treated Dart. Police tape fluttered from the “Keep Out” sign that Crocker had planted in the gravel.”

[TexasCajun]

Dart was getting between Crocker and mouthy drunk teens & tweens who had rocks in their hands.

[Portcall24]

Paddle faster, I can still hear the banjo.

[Graybeard58]

But we have heard really only one side of the story.

True that. A lot depends on the races of the individuals involved. I don't know how the author of this piece expects us to make a judgement call with that piece of evidence omitted.

[MrEdd]

Point out to them that poison ivy and poison sumac are their friends. A little fence and a thick poison sumac hedge should work wonders to coral the tubers.

[nathanbedford]

Best post of the day!

[Kartographer]

Then I would say if the center of the river was his propety line and there was substanial vegetation on the sand bar it was his property.

[Responsibility2nd]

Never bring a rock to a gun fight. Especially with a guy straight out of “Deliverance”.

[NEMDF]

This appears to be not very far from where my 25 year-old nephew went missing on a rafting trip on the Meramec on 5/31/13. He has not yet been found.

[Kartographer]

Crocker looks like he might be a ‘White-Hispanic’ so there is that to consider. ;-)

[from occupied ga]

guy straight out of “Deliverance”.

The guy that was shoot looked like he could play the banjo pretty well too.

[ansel12]

Beating the charges is one thing, but when you go down to the river bank to yell at the rafters and somebody dies, then you are doing something wrong.

[fireforeffect]

1. Posted / No Trespassing signs.

2. Electric cattle fences. If they do not know what the insulators are for, they need to learn. Probably best to post “electric fence” sign right under the No Trespassing sign as a counter lawyer measure.

[Nervous Tick]

>> Look at the suspected shooter in the picture. Looks like a real winner.

The dead guy doesn’t exactly look like a pillar o’ the community, himself.

There are bucketfuls of stupidity on display here. Both sides share the blame. I’m guessing Crocker’s going to prison though.