Obama Responds to Zimmerman Verdict: 'Stem the Tide of Gun Violence'--For Trayvon

Breitbart News ^ | 7-14-2013 | Joel B. Pollak

[Student0165]

It wasn’t a tragedy for me.

[Dr. Bogus Pachysandra]

“We can jail thugs, criminals and gang bangers and reveal their identities at the first vandalism, threat, use of narcotics, sale of narcotics, possession of stolen goods, possession of burglary tools, assault on school bus drivers, suspensions from required schooling or truancy, that’s what we can do to save innocent citizen’s lives.”

Or, we could give them all lobotomies on commission of a second or third offense. Then take them out to the fields to pick lettuce and strawberries. They’d do it with a smile on their faces!

[DeWalt]

Ha, now thats funny. I don’t care who ya are.

[101stAirborneVet]

If you claim that Serino has NO CHOICE but to recommend a Manslaughter charge, well, I have no legal knowledge to dispute that.

But, to my ear, that sounds absurd.

The very first document produced in an investigation like this is the police report, completed by responding officers. In the officers' police report, they documented what the most likely charge would be if any subsequent investigation determined there was probable cause to arrest Zimmerman.

Here is the pertinent part of the police report:

They basically have to choose a classification for the death, for example, "Accidental", "Natural", or a variety of criminal classifications. Since there was another party involved and the responding officers do not do a complete investigation, they classified it as Manslaughter.

Every subsequent document produced would also carry "Manslaughter" unless it was changed at various stages. This would only be done if something happened such as Serino learning that Zimmerman and Martin had argued the day before, and Zimmerman was heard to say, "I'm gonna kill you one of these days". Then the report could have been changed to First Degree Murder / Homicide, for example. As it was, though, Serino left it alone.

Even if Serino or any other investigator later opines in a report that they don't believe Zimmerman's story, and presents that report along with the already settled title of "Manslaughter", it does not mean that the opinion expressed in the report and the title of Manslaughter are linked in any way.

All that matters is whether or not the investigator found that the facts of the case comported with the elements needed to charge the titled offense.

In this case, the facts of the case did not comport with the titled offense, therefore no charges were applied to Zimmerman, despite any opinions of truthfulness expressed by an investigator.

Any opinion by Serino that Zimmerman was being untruthful was essentially dicta, and not controlling for the purposes of charging Zimmerman.

[presently no screen name]

RINO’S always have their hand in something UnAmerican for evil’s sake and no one to take them to the barn. Their deeds they own and every act has a consequence whether it be good or bad. We don’t have to know their consequence but we do know, it’s a given they will encounter it.

[zeestephen]

From memory.....

The Sanford Police Chief, as I recall, disagreed publicly with Serino, the Lead Detective.

The Chief did not, as I recall, block Serino from filing a Manslaughter affidavit with Sanford prosecutors.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

“It is the seriousness of the charge, not the nature of the evidence, that matters.”

[zeestephen]

Vet,

I am not referring to a “Police Report.”

Serino filed an affidavit with Sanford prosecutors and recommended a Manslaughter charge.

I will search for Serino’s affidavit and Ping you when I post it.

[servo1969]

Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
#44

Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
Into the blue again, after the money’s gone
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
Into the blue again, into silent water
Under the rocks and stones, there is water underground
Letting the days go by, into silent water
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was
Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was

[101stAirborneVet]

Serino literally recommended a Manslaughter charge against Zimmerman.

And to respond to this point specifically, the charging document is necessary and presented to the prosecutor as a matter of course, not necessarily because the investigator actually believes a crime has been committed. The reason for this is that there is a difference between "police charges" and "court charges". The police are not capable of determining the actual charge, or even whether or not a crime has occurred. They are trained to determine probable cause "in the field", but every significant charge must be screened by a prosecutor.

As I said before, I have prepared charging documents (in which I recommended, as a matter of course, that the arrested be charged with XYZ) and presented them to the prosecutor where I recommended verbally that the arrested not receive "court charges" because I personally did not believe probable cause existed.

To summarize, since I blather on, when presenting something like this to the prosecutor, you sort of present the "worst case scenario" of charges, because the prosecutor has the final say, and they must be provided with that worst case to be able to determine the final outcome.

[DeWalt]

No one can make the officer change the charge, but you also have other investigators on scene that night that would have agreed to with Sorino. You had investigators from ths State Attorneys office as well as Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement. Remember no one charges or arrest unless the prosecutors say so. At the time the report is file they have still not gotten all the facts. Would you want to be lead investigator and decide at that time not to charge before you have everything? I would not.

[zeestephen]

From the Orlando Sentinel - 12 December 2012:

“Just above Serino’s signature, the veteran investigator wrote, ‘I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias charging George Michael Zimmerman with manslaughter.’”

I am still searching for the whole affidavit.....

[101stAirborneVet]

"I believe there exists probable cause for issuance of a capias charging George Michael Zimmerman with manslaughter."

I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you just for the sake of it. I just mean to point out that this is standard practice in a death case (and many other serious crimes), and the above is standard language in the document that is presented to the prosecutor as a matter of course.

Serino may very well have believed Zimmerman should be charged.

My point is only that the fact he presented an affidavit with the above language is literally standard procedure, and in itself does not mean that he did want Zimmerman charged.

[101stAirborneVet]

And to expand on that just a bit more:

If there is the slightest whiff of probable cause, even if the totality of the circumstances leads you completely away from it, you would prepare this document in this way.

[zeestephen]

Just to follow up.....

Is this something Defense attorneys attack you for in court?

I mean, sometimes you recommend a charge, but you don’t really believe it?

Then, sometimes you recommend a charge, but, this time, you really, really DO believe it?

That sounds completely nuts to me!

[DeWalt]

Bottom line is prosecutors call the charge.

[101stAirborneVet]

There is also this factor, as reported by the Orlando Sentinel:

I suspect this is where Serino got his "whiff" of probable cause.

[Lockbar]

Gun violence works, it saved George Zimmerman from additional injuries.

[Huskrrrr]

Good points, thanks.

[101stAirborneVet]

I mean, sometimes you recommend a charge, but you don’t really believe it?

I never charged someone who I literally believed had NOT committed a crime, but I have charged people where probable cause existed yet the totality of the circumstances led me to a different conclusion. I would express my doubts to the prosecutor. If they chose to proceed, they did so at their peril.

Is this something Defense attorneys attack you for in court?

If the prosecutor proceeds on such a thin charge, sure they would reap the results of having charged it. I'm uncertain how it would play in a trial as I've never been asked on the stand whether I thought the charge was appropriate. Since the appropriate charge is a matter of law, and I am not a lawyer, I'm not sure it would be given much weight. It's the prosecutor's job to interpret my input to determine, for court charges, whether PC really exists.