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To: wideawake

There are a lot of things illegal and legal, constitutional and unconstitutional, all getting mixed together.

Some of this is serious allegations that we should be very concerned about. Some of this is agitprop that we should be very concerned about its being used to destroy legitimate intelligence-gathering.

I think the Verizon meta-data screaming falls into the latter, as it is analogous to someone noticing when you receive visitors...annoying, and perhaps a bit creepy if you don’t trust them, but not a violation of the 4th amendment. Digging into unsecured captures of personal electronic communications without a warrant is the former. Capturing communications and locking it in encrypted boxes until a warrant is granted is in-between.


102 posted on 06/10/2013 8:12:07 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: lepton

4th Amendment: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Seems straightforward to me...


171 posted on 06/10/2013 8:46:18 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: lepton

Well said. More precise surgical instruments need to come out once we begin grappling with this in a national conversation.


243 posted on 06/10/2013 9:46:34 AM PDT by jobim (.)
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