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To: BroJoeK; Bubba Ho-Tep; x; Sherman Logan; rustbucket
In 1860, the South imported $346 million dollars worth of products. Of this list of goods, $240 million came from the Northern manufacturers and suppliers, and European originated imported goods sold to the South was $106 million.

The entire country imported $336 million dollars in goods for that same year.

Grasping the significance and the magnitude of difference between the new Confederate tariff and the recently passed Morrill tariff in March of 1861, and the likelihood that the South would now transfer this demand to European goods and trade directly with Europe, Northern businessmen, politicians, and newspapermen knew that the demand for goods from the South was immense and would have a far reaching impact on their economy.

Practically every New England citizen would be affected by the loss of Southern goods traveling through the North.

Any artisan engaged in building in the shipping trade would be hurt. Any carman engaged in carrying, any agent who sold manufacturers, any merchant who sold to consumers in the South, any shipper, ship builder, lumberman, or laborer would be hurt.

Any brokers, exchange dealers, bankers, insurers, warehousemen, or suppliers of goods to these people would be hurt.

The profits to Northern coffers that were about to be lost were:

Bounties to fisheries, per annum………………………………$1,500,000.
Customs, per annum, disbursed at the North…………………$40,000,000.
Profits of northern manufacturers…………………………….$30,000,000.
Profits of importers…………………………………………...$16,000,000.
Profits of shipping, imports, exports………………………….$40,000,000.
Profits of Travelers……………………………………………$60,000,000.
Profits of agents, brokers, commissions……………………….$10,000,000
Profits from capital drawn from the South…………………….$30,000,000.
Total Annual Revenue Lost………………………………… $226,500,000.

From the census data and the business-press community, it was apparent that the North knew it was approaching permanent injury. Its economy depended on manufacturing and shipping. But it neither raised its own food nor its own raw materials, nor did it furnish freights for its own shipping

Suddenly, in late March and early April, Lincoln's office was filled with governors, businessmen, and politicians calling for war. (From Kettell and Klein, and the Treasury Department, and the 1861 State of the Union report.)

382 posted on 04/10/2013 1:44:07 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge
Its economy depended on manufacturing and shipping. But it neither raised its own food nor its own raw materials, nor did it furnish freights for its own shipping.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

The only raw material the North imported in large quantity for its industry that I'm aware of was cotton.

The North produced much more food than the South, and was a major exporter of grain to England and elsewhere in Europe. In some years exporting about as much grain as the South exported cotton.

The Deep South did not even produce enough food to feed itself, with large imports from the North. Not surprising, since so much of the land was devoted to cotton, which isn't particularly edible.

Are you perhaps talking about the Northeast rather than the North? Even the Northeast was at this time still largely agricultural, though less so than the rest of the country.

You really do have some odd ideas of what the country was like in 1860.

388 posted on 04/10/2013 6:30:17 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: PeaRidge; Bubba Ho-Tep; x; Sherman Logan; rustbucket
PeaRidge post #382: "In 1860, the South imported $346 million dollars worth of products...
The entire country imported $336 million dollars in goods for that same year."

You might want to review those numbers, since they make no sense.
Logically, the South could not import more than the entire country.

Indeed, basic economic facts are that while the average slave-holding Confederate citizen was better off than their Northern cousins, for every white Confederate, there were four Northerners, and Union-states' manufacturing and trade economy accounted for 80% to 90% of the country's totals.

So any suggestions which exaggerate the importance of Confederate-state trade are necessarily misleading.

PeaRidge: "...Northern businessmen, politicians, and newspapermen knew that the demand for goods from the South was immense and would have a far reaching impact on their economy."

Yes but as it turned out, unlike the South: the North's manufacturing and trade economy was not destroyed by embargos, blockade or war.

PeaRidge: "The profits to Northern coffers that were about to be lost were:
Bounties to fisheries, per annum………………………………$1,500,000...
Total Annual Revenue Lost………………………………… $226,500,000."

You cite no source for these numbers, and they appear very dubious.
What exactly do they represent?

Regardless, in overall terms Civil War cost the Union around $6 billion, the Confederacy another $2 billion.
So your figures here add up to less than 4% of the Union total.

What is the significance of that?

PeaRidge: "North knew it was approaching permanent injury.
Its economy depended on manufacturing and shipping.
But it neither raised its own food nor its own raw materials, nor did it furnish freights for its own shipping"

You are obviously very confused.
Those words apply to the South, not the North.
The North was self-sufficient in virtually every respect, except its need for Southern cotton, and even that, as it happened, could be done without.

PeaRidge: "Suddenly, in late March and early April, Lincoln's office was filled with governors, businessmen, and politicians calling for war."

A misleading exaggeration, at best.
The truth is that Lincoln listened to many voices, from all sides, especially those of Border States like Kentucky.
That's because Lincoln figured, if he lost Kentucky that was the same as losing the whole thing.
So he payed close attention to opinions from Kentucky, all of which said Lincoln should go as easy as possible on secessionists.

So Lincoln was not eager for war, but he was determined as much as possible to uphold his oath of office.

411 posted on 04/16/2013 4:33:27 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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