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To: Nowhere Man; IronJack; rockrr; Sherman Logan
Nowhere Man: "I do agree that Slavery would not have lasted too long in the South, by latest, 1900 when mechanization was in full swing."

No, you have it backwards.
By 1860 slave-holders learned their human "property" could do most anything unskilled white workers could do, better, cheaper and with less complaint.
So slavery was on the march -- not just growing cash crops like cotton, sugar cane and tobacco, but also working in mines, building railroads, and labor in manufacturing shops.
Meaning by 1860, for slave-holders the sky was the limit, just so long as they could find new places & jobs for slave labor, there was no need to ever hire "white trash".

Nowhere Man: "...there might have been a drive to have the freed Blacks resettle in Africa or perhaps in the Carribean somewhere if the Confederates would have expanded there."

In fact, there were several plans beginning with President Jefferson, all the way through Lincoln's to purchase freedom and offer resettlement for ex-slaves in Africa.
All such plans were rejected by slave-holders.

Confederate plans to expand into the Caribbean were certainly not to provide homes for freed slaves, but rather to provide new land for slave-holder operations.

Nowhere Man: "I just wanted to point out as you did the Civil War was not quite the noble war to end slavery.
The North really did not care to end or or not, basically Lincoln freed the slaves to stick it to the South, it was just a tool to do that."

But the 1860 Republican platform did not call for freeing any slaves anywhere.
It merely opposed slavery's expansion.
So there was no automatic effort to free all slaves, just because the Confederacy had declared war, on May 6, 1861.

After May of 1861, Lincoln's first concern was to defeat the military power which had provoked, started and declared war on the United States.
Of course, Lincoln knew from the beginning that war meant the President could declare runaway slaves to be "contraband" and free them.
But his actual sequence of events was slow and deliberate, in hopes of keeping the Unionist loyalty of slave-holders in Border States.

185 posted on 03/24/2013 11:35:49 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
In fact, there were several plans beginning with President Jefferson, all the way through Lincoln's to purchase freedom and offer resettlement for ex-slaves in Africa. All such plans were rejected by slave-holders.

Also, generally, by the ex-slaves.

If I remember correctly, there was a disastrous attempt under Lincoln to colonize freed slaves somewhere in or around Haiti. Most of the colonists died of starvation or disease.

All such attempts foundered in practice due to the sheer cost of doing any such thing with 4M people, even if they were willing to participate.

The same reason, BTW, all attempts to do compensated emancipation never went very far. At a time when the entire federal budget for 1860 totaled $60M, the $3000M value of all the slaves was more than a little daunting.

186 posted on 03/24/2013 12:10:07 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: BroJoeK
Way I see it:

American Revolution I (1775-83) - We Won
American Revolution II (1861-65) - We Lost
American Revolution III (20??-??) - ?????

I disagree, the beauty of mechanization is that we have "slaves" that could work 24 hours a day and never get sick, need medical care, housing, feeding and so forth with the only thing in return is giving them fuel/electricity and maintenance every now and then along with the occasional repair of worn parts. I know some say you could get slaves to run the machines, but there are some machines that need skilled labor to run them plus the slaves could sabotage them. Even if I have to pay more for labor, most likely it would be offset, (I'm taking the view of a plantation or business owner here for sake of argument) by someone who would be loyal to me.

The Civil War opened up the first true door to the expansion of runaway government powers.
189 posted on 03/24/2013 12:59:39 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Whitey, I miss you so much. Take care, pretty girl. (4-15-2001 - 10-12-2012))
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