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To: BroJoeK; central_va

Lincoln was referred to by Carl Sandburg as being a bit “lavender” which in those days was a way of saying “homosexual.” It also seems that Lincoln and Joshua Speed often slept together in what could be described today as a twin bed. While it was not unusual for people of the same sex to share a bed in those days, the beds shared were much larger than a small twin sized bed.

Regardless, Lincoln had a choice to invade the South or not, and he did so starting the war. When the war was over the relationship between the Federal government and the states was forever changed. The original federation was thereby dead, defunct, and forever perverted. What we have had since is a mutated version of what our Founding Fathers created.


858 posted on 04/11/2013 9:38:42 PM PDT by Jay Redhawk (Zombies are just intelligent, good looking democrats.)
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To: Jay Redhawk; donmeaker; Mr. Lucky; central_va
Jay Redhawk: "Lincoln was referred to by Carl Sandburg as being a bit 'lavender' which in those days was a way of saying 'homosexual.' "

The poet Sandburg was born 13 years after Lincoln's assasination, and did not know Lincoln.
So his comment may be justly taken as, well, poetic license.

Before marrying Mary Todd, Lincoln fell in love and courted at least two other women: Ann Rutledge and Mary Owen.
Lincoln and Mary Todd had four sons: Robert (1843), Edward (1846), William (1850) and Thomas (1853).

Lincoln is not know to have chased other women after marriage, so he sounds to me like a good family man.

Joshua Speed was Lincoln's best friend, but no evidence of a homosexual relationship has ever been verified.
Speed married Fanny Hemming in February 1842, nine months before Lincoln married Mary Todd.

Of course, modern notions of what it means, exactly, to be "gay" involve "sexual orientation", meaning just about anyone who's ever had a "gay" thought.
More traditional ideas assumed that while many people have such thoughts, just as with heterosexual fantasies, what matters is behavior, not "orientation".

The verified record of Lincoln's behavior includes no evidence of "gay" sexual orientation.

Jay Redhawk: "Regardless, Lincoln had a choice to invade the South or not, and he did so starting the war."

From the beginning, Lincoln was committed to enforcing Federal laws and maintaining possession of Federal properties like Forts Sumter and Pickens.
But, Lincoln made no moves to "invade" the South, or start war, until after the Confederacy had not only started war at Fort Sumter, but formally declared war, on May 6, 1861.

Jay Redhawk: "The original federation was thereby dead, defunct, and forever perverted.
What we have had since is a mutated version of what our Founding Fathers created."

Changed, yes, completed, yes, but "perverted", no -- with slavery Constitutionally abolished, beginning with Lincoln's 13th Ammendment in 1865.

However, nothing you see today in our bloated Federal monstrosity began until the "Progressive Era" 100 years ago, with the 16th and 17th Ammendments, and Federal Reserve.

The only thing Lincoln did was defeat the militarized Slave Power, which started and declared war on the United States, then invaded every Union state and territory they could reach.
In the process, he also abolished slavery.
But the basic US Constitution remained unchanged for another 50 years, at which time the South helped lead the charge towards "Progressivism" -- electing Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt, along with 60+ years of Democrat controlled congresses (1930 to 1994).

"Progressives" are your "mutations" and "perversions", not Lincoln's military victory over the Slave Power.

860 posted on 04/12/2013 4:39:45 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: Jay Redhawk

Scurrilous, slanderous, and asinine. You’re batting 1000 ;-)


864 posted on 04/12/2013 6:50:16 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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