Posted on 02/21/2013 3:31:23 PM PST by SkyPilot
The Defense Department on Wednesday officially notified Congress that it plans to begin furloughing its 800,000 civilian employees across the country if automatic spending cuts begin March 1, estimating the states would lose a total of $4.86 billion in workers’ wages this year.
According to Pentagon estimates, among the hardest-hit states would be Virginia, which would have about 88,000 affected workers and salary losses of $660.9 million; California, with 62,600 workers and $419.7 million in lost wages; and Maryland, with 45,700 workers and $359.3 million in lost earnings.
“This is not a Beltway phenomenon,” Jessica L. Wright, the acting undersecretary of defense for personnel and readiness, told reporters at the Pentagon. “More than 80 percent of our civilians work outside of the D.C. metro area. They live and work in every state of the union.”
Under the furlough plan, civilian workers would be forced to take one day of unpaid leave each week for 22 weeks from late April through September, costing them about 20 percent of their pay during that time, Pentagon officials said.
In a written message, Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta told civilian workers that they “will be provided at least 30 days’ notice prior to executing a furlough and your benefits will be protected to the maximum extent possible.”
He added that the Pentagon “also will work to ensure that furloughs are executed in a consistent and appropriate manner.”
Mr. Panetta noted that the department has been funded by a continuing resolution that has limited spending to 2012 levels and said the effects of sequestration may be felt more intensely because of it.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Since Sequestration will require an INCREASE in Federal Spending, where was the increase in Federal spending going?
Sequestration reduces the rate of increase in Federal Spending, and does not reduce the total dollar amount to be spent in 2013 compared to what was spent in 2012.
So, if 800, 000 workers get laid of because the rate of increase in Federal spending was lowered, then what was the rest of the money going towards?
How many workers would be laid off if the 2013 Federal Spending was the same as 2012?
Something is being covered up in DC !
Lots of pink in the Pentagon these days, I guess that part is true
You’re going to find out when jets are grounded, ships can’t get underway because they can’t get parts or repair instructions, and the military guys can’t get paid because DFAS is shut down. Be careful what you wish for.
My (conservative) friends who work in animal shelters in California have had this ongoing for at least a year, even as incredible numbers of animals were dumped at much higher rates than ever before. I never heard them whine once.
but we're kidding ourselves that we don't look at military pensions as a major problem....
we should encourage large numbers of young people to join the service, but stay in only 4-6 yrs then out...finish their military in the reserves and receive a pension at age 60, which is entirely reasonable...
ARE YOU NUTS???
There are plenty of good folks, LIKE MYSELF, who are now going to be hurting because of Obama's War against the military.
I barely net $22,000 a year. How is that "good news?"
Sure, there are folks who make enough money to be able to tighten up a bit, but when folks like me, WHO BARELY NET $22,000 A YEAR, have to take a pay cut because of Obama's war on the military see you cheering this, it makes me wonder why I even patronize this website. I'm going to lose over $4,000, and you're happy?
Go ahead, flame away, but I'm letting you know that this sequestration will hurt many people and all I see you doing is cheering Obama on.
Sickening, absolutely sickening................
4 posted on 2/21/2013 5:42:41 PM by SeaHawkFan: “Why are there over 800,000 DoD civilians?”
Magellan has a point; the question he (and SeaHawkFan) asked does need to be asked.
There are several answers.
1. It is cheaper to hire a civilian than train, equip, and pay a uniformed soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine, especially considering the post-military payments such as the GI Bill for college tuition, medical benefits, and retirement which we, quite correctly, insist that our troops get as a reward for their service after their service.
2. There are many people who, after 20 to 30 years in uniform, can't physically do the work required for a servicemember while deployed but are quite capable of doing most but not all of the work for which they were trained in stateside duties.
Department of Defense civilian employees save tremendous amounts of money. There is no way we could afford to pay for the number of uniformed personnel we had during the draftee eras of World War II, Korean and Vietnam. Uniformed servicemembers back then got lousy pay because they were required to serve due to the draft; today we have to offer pay to people who are willing to die for their country and that is not cheap.
And before people start saying these DoD civilian furloughs will mostly affect retired people who already have pensions, not active duty, don't forget that a large number of DoD civilian employees are military wives who, quite correctly, have spousal preference for hiring.
Full disclosure: I live outside Fort Leonard Wood. My business will be affected by these cuts if they become the “new normal.” Our county over the last decade has changed from being an overwhelmingly Democratic to an overwhelmingly Republican county. The only good thing about these furloughs is we'll have even more local people mad at President Obama and even more of them will jump ship out of the Democratic Party.
Bottom line: Sauropod said it blunter than I would, but he is right:
58 posted on 2/21/2013 9:09:23 PM by sauropod: “You are obviously clueless with respect to the much more complex combat environment today vs 1966, and have no idea what it takes to actually field and develop a major weapons system. Can some cuts be made? Yes. Can they be made to the level you are advocating? No.”
I have a Bachelor's in Aerospace Engineering, a Master's of Business Administration, have 23 years of commissioned military service as an Air Force officer in the active and reserve component, have been stationed, been TDY, and deployed to 50 countries, including Iraq and Afghanistan, and have worked for vendors to the DoD.
I have been on both sides of the procurement system, both as an operator of weapons systems and as a vendor to the DoD.
You really don’t have any idea what you are talking about do you? This isn’t a government shutdown. There will be no “backpay” for the furloughs.
They’ll all get every single bit of back pay. It’s all BS.
Finally, some sanity here. It gets a bit frustrating when people with no earthly idea of what I do feel its okay to take 1/5 of my check for 6 months.
"2. There are many people who, after 20 to 30 years in uniform, can't physically do the work required for a servicemember ... "
This argument is valid to a point, but falls down on several others. First, the argument starts to work only if DoD contractors are included in the total number of employees. While a DoD Civilian may cost less than a Uniformed member, a contractor typically costs less than a DoD Civilian, so to carry the cost argument to its logical conclusion, there would be fewer DoD Civlians as well (replaced by contractors).
Second, in 1966, many of those DoD civilians were Wage Grade. Many of the Wage Grade positions have been eliminated in the DoD, as technology has eliminated things like typing pools, the DoD has contracted out many support services (janitors, etc.), and because today up to 50% of weapons system depot maintenance is outsourced to defense contractors. So many of the Wage Grade employees which were eliminated over the last few decades were replaced by GS employees.
Third, the argument does not take into account technology and modern workplace productivity. While it may be more costly to maintain an F-22 than an F-100, at the same time many other tasks have been streamlined an automated. Troubleshooting is automated, inventory is automated, etc. In the white-collar private sector, modern technology has led to dramatic changes in both the composition, and number of the employees. There should be similar productivity increases in the white-collar DoD civilian world, which should have led to fewer DoD civilian employees.
Finally, the fact the DoD white collar GS work force is managed using an Industrial Age blue collar system of timecards and hours suggests the productivity per employee is going to be less than what one can get in the private sector.
“A furlough is not a termination. These people will still have jobs even though the government really doesn’t have any money to pay them. In the private sector when there is no money to pay the employees they don’t get furloughs, they get fired.”
I am now a government employee whose pay will go from $1096.00 to about $780.00 a payday starting in mid-April. Now I am cool with this IF I knew that the money that is taken would go towards the debt or something IMPORTANT, but it is going to be wasted and spent on more Obamaphones. that is totally WRONG!!!!
Figuring out the right proportions of uniformed personnel, DoD civilians, and contractors is not easy. All three categories have positives and negatives.
We're in uncharted territory now, fighting a long-term war with an all-volunteer force. As SkyPilot pointed out in post #51, there is overlap in training and experience because about 44 percent of DoD civilians who will be affected by the furlough are veterans. I haven't yet seen a percentage of Army spouses, but I'm betting that a clear majority of DoD civilians are either Army spouses or veterans.
The bottom line is these furloughs are going to hurt lots of people in the military community. DoD civilians are not wasting money but rather saving money — though I am the first one to point out that by its very nature, government is less efficient than private-sector business.
Good for them. I don’t hear conservatives complaining either at work....however, we are on a website discussing it so you might hear some emotion. What good is the site if there is not any complaining...lol.
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