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To: BroJoeK

You fail the logic test. Secession is neither legal or illegal. The Federal government was created by the sovereign states and was meant to be the servant of the states. Lincoln either did not understand that or he did not give a hoot. States were never meant to have to answer to the federal government except in those areas enumerated within the Constitution. Secession is neither expressly denied or granted the states, but is rather to be assumed under the nature of the agreement, and the necessity of the states to ratify this Federation before it would become legitimate.

Your contention that a state should be forced to petition that government which it has in part created for its right of separation is illogical. The parent does not ask the child’s permission.


298 posted on 03/03/2013 9:56:22 AM PST by Jay Redhawk (Zombies are just intelligent, good looking democrats.)
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To: Jay Redhawk
The Federal government was created by the sovereign states and was meant to be the servant of the states.

No it wasn't. do you understand the concept of dual sovereignty? Go back and reread the US Constitution to see which is defined dominant and which is subordinate.

Secession is neither expressly denied or granted the states, but is rather to be assumed under the nature of the agreement, and the necessity of the states to ratify this Federation before it would become legitimate.

What an incongruous and contradictory statement. Secession may have been assumed (in the case of the WBTS) but there wasn't mutuality of agreement between the parties involved. So the slavers chose unilateral secession and open rebellion - not a good choice.

299 posted on 03/03/2013 10:22:34 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Jay Redhawk
The Federal government was created by the sovereign states and was meant to be the servant of the states.

As made clear by the first six words of the Constitution ("We the People of the United States"), the Constitution was created by and for the American people.

302 posted on 03/03/2013 10:34:10 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Jay Redhawk
Jay Redhawk: "Secession is neither legal or illegal."

It's the difference between withdrawing money from a bank with your ATM card versus a Colt 45 Pistol.
In both cases, you get money, but in the latter case, you will then have the law to answer to, FRiend.

Jay Redhawk: "The Federal government was created by the sovereign states and was meant to be the servant of the states."

If you had ever read the US Constitution, you might have noticed it actually begins with the words:

Jay Redhawk: "Secession is neither expressly denied or granted the states, but is rather to be assumed under the nature of the agreement, and the necessity of the states to ratify this Federation before it would become legitimate."

Wrong again.
Our Founders considered their "compact" to be as "perpetual" and "perfect" as a good marriage, and only to be ended by "mutual consent" (i.e., approval of Congress), or from a serious material breach of contract such as oppression or "usurpation".
For that, they established the Supreme Court to rule on such questions.

Jay Redhawk: "The parent does not ask the child’s permission."

Then you are a very poor parent, FRiend. ;-)

304 posted on 03/03/2013 10:52:13 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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