Timbuktu mayor: Mali rebels torched library of ancient manuscripts

Guardian ^ | , Monday 28 January 2013 08.37 EST | Luke Harding in Sévaré

[Little Ray]

This is why Western nation SHOULD loot third world cesspits like Mali of their “treasures.” At least if it is our museums, it would be protected. We should have cleaned out Iraq...

[SamuraiScot]

t’s everybody’s MO. In the 18th century . . . It’s a very spiteful, gratuitously ugly act but not restricted to Muslims, alas.

Well, then, so are murder, kidnapping, slavery, and rape "everybody's MO." To deny these are a Moslem specialty is to descend into meaningless generalization. For Moslems, these crimes are part of their pirate religion, and they commit them more than anyone.

For a contrast, when the Aztecs were overthrown in Mexico, the Catholic Church didn't torch old documents—it had them translated. That's in keeping with the Church's tradition of learning native languages and keeping and developing what is good in native cultures, to anchor everything in Christ.

In Israel, the Israelis preserve and document antiquities and holy sites—including the Moslem ones. The Moslem-Palis destroy them, including their own, because they often give the lie to whatever is the current Islamist party line about the sordid history of Islam.

The Christian ethic has been so strong in the West (despite human temptation to the contrary) that it has shown up in some surprising places. When the German Army occupied Paris, Hitler ordered it burned. His generals ignored the message, ordered another Cognac, and went to the museums.

Yes, the West is different. Islam delenda est.

[dfwgator]

Key words, “In the 18th century”. We’ve evolved, Islam hasn’t.

[null and void]

Not the easiest place to get to, and certainly not a center of high tech.

There was a time, not all that long ago, when it was THE center of knowledge.

[null and void]

For a contrast, when the Aztecs were overthrown in Mexico, the Catholic Church didn't torch old documents—it had them translated.

Sadly, this simply isn't true.

[A. Patriot]

What is their saying, something like: “If it isn’t contained in the Koran, ...”

[UnwashedPeasant]

Is 13th century now considered ancient? I thought it was medieval, like Islam.

[null and void]

Context: it wasn't so much the Catholic Church that burned the Mayan and Aztec codices, it was SPANISH priests who did.

Spain had just escaped centuries of brutal islamist rule, the taint of which lead directly to The Inquisition and the burning of the codices.

It takes any culture time to recover from that big of a trauma.

[Cronos]

well, in fairness, this was Moslems destroying Moslem culture.

it's just like the same bunch of radical Moslems (Wahabbis/Salafis -- sponsored by Saudia) who destroyed the 1400 year old tombs of the first Caliphs and Mohammed's wives in Mecca. The Saudis were about to destroy Mohammed's tomb as well but were stopped by Moslem outcry from around the world.

to Captain Rhino -- note that the ones doing the destroying are/were radical Sunnis. The Shia's (12'ers like the Shias in Iran and Iraq but also 5ers like the Ismailis and Bohris) and Ibadis will oppose this as will the mystical Sunnis -- the Sufis

[rarestia]

That is a reprehensible loss. Cretins destroying history. Very sad.

Isn't it obvious the purpose of Muslims and leftists? They want to destroy traces of history so that they can re-write it in their own words and to favor their own goals.

Don't be surprised if there's an unexplained fire in the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian, or the National Archives at some point during Bambi's tenure. They want this history of this nation to be re-written.

[Fightin Whitey]

In Obama World the 80s were medieval.

The mid-40s, about the time of the surrender to the Allied Powers, was when the serpent showed up in the Garden of Eden.

[Mr. Quarterpanel]

That is a reprehensible loss. Cretins destroying history. Very sad.

In order to rewrite history, you must destroy the current version of it. You must absorb what is there and change it to your liking, inserting and deleting wherever needed to accommodate your view.

This happens over and over. The Muslims are just the latest and most brazen example.

[SueRae]

Sadly, it wouldn’t. But at least we have a lot of digitized records as well. Timbuktu did not. We’ll never know what has been lost. Like losing the Library of Alexandria for them. And us. :-(

[Captain Rhino]

Check.

The opposition of the Muslim world will have no more effect on the radical Sunnis, Wahabbis, and Salafis, than did the outcry over the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan. They simply view anyone and anything not falling within their very constrained circle of faith to be unworthy of consideration. The fact that others, regardless of faith, regarded the tombs, the ancient manuscripts, or the ancient statues as part of the cultural and artistic heritage of mankind only excites them to commit these acts because they know the pain it will cause. This is unconstrained nihilism being carried out by self-empowered adult men who have no more maturity than teenage boys.

We are already seeing desecrations of religious buildings, graves, and public monuments in Europe by young Muslim men who have fallen under the sway of this thinking. (Not to mention the murders, rapes, etc. arising from the same community.) Can there be any doubt of what would remain if such an ideology were to gain ascendancy in the West?

Only force deters them; only the grave will stop them.

[SamuraiScot]

For a contrast, when the Aztecs were overthrown in Mexico, the Catholic Church didn't torch old documents—it had them translated.

Sadly, this simply isn't true.

Sadly, how soon we forget. Here's a well-known example indeed of a Spanish priest burning Mayan and Aztec codices—and being condemned for it by the Spanish (Catholic) government itself.

It gets even more complicated. This very priest, Fr. Diego de Landa, had created a phonetic alphabet for recording and translating the Mayan hieroglyphic code. It is because of his work that we can read Mayan symbols at all. (His system was finally understood as phonetic, rather than ideographic, in 1952.) And Mayan culture and society are understood today because of his journal and other writings. What he said was that most of what he burned involved devil-worship. The Spanish decided he'd gone overboard, and condemned him for it.

Here we are, living in a culture that respects the past—comparatively speaking, since we did not do as Mao did, torching every speck of ancient Chinese knowledge and architecture he could get his hands on. (Which the ancestor-worshipping ancient Chinese sages had preserved.) Torching your enemies' stuff (oops, as the pagan Vikings and Huns also did) is typical human behavior. It's only a confident culture that seeks objective truth that fights this urge and seeks instead to understand what went before—knowing that its own search for truth in Christ is stronger than faction or tribe.

The Soviets extirpated all the inconvenient knowledge they could, and it crippled them and resulted in their downfall. The liberals here rewrite history continuously, and their lies never agree with each other—so they must continually change the subject and "Move On." (There has never been a more aptly named organization.)

Get this straight: Yes, the victors among men usually try to destroy their enemies' history. But we live in a culture (the Christian tradition) where this is largely not the case. The lamentable exceptions to our historical sensitivity are just that—exceptions. Don't accuse the West of being in the same category as the Moslems or most other pagans.

And what went on before the Mayans and the Aztecs? Certainly the practical-minded Aztecs did not invent the writing or Indian culture they used. Did they torch it all?

[SunkenCiv]

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