Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union?

CNN ^ | November 14th, 2012 | Jack Cafferty

[Pfesser]

Texas Gov. Rick Perry does not support a petition for the Lone Star State to secede from the union.

But a lot of people do.

The online petition asking the federal government to allow Texas to withdraw from the U.S. following President Barack Obama's reelection has nearly 100,000 signatures. It appears on a section of a White House website called “We The People" and cites economic difficulties due to the federal government's inability to cut spending.

Supporters suggest that secession would protect Texans' standard of living and "re-secure their rights and liberties."

[Tau Food]

Therefore, we can only withdraw from supporting it and secede, or bow down and worship it.

I think anyone who really meant that statement would have by now also thought of a third option - emigration to another country. In fact, that should be the first option that comes to mind when someone decides to divorce himself from the USA.

[INVAR]

Love it or leave it - even when it makes itself God over this people?

That’s a breaking of the first Commandment: idolatry. Perhaps one of the many reasons this people willingly succumbed to hedonism and tyranny; allegiance to the country first and not to God.

So if I understand what you are saying - if we choose to divorce ourselves from being slaves of this regime, and if we would have God as our Sovereign - then we need to leave this country we were born into if we want to continue to worship God and not the state?

To paraphrase a few great statesmen in regards to party; we did not leave the country - the country left us.

A ‘love it or leave it’ mindset makes my entire point about the seig-heil tyranny we are growing accustomed.

[UnwashedPeasant]

"Yeah, that's what the Declaration said in 1776. However, they then formed a confederation (Articles of Confederation). Then, in 1789, the people of the United States formed a new national government and a "more perfect Union" with a new Constitution."

They formed a Union, not a single Nation-State. It was like NATO or the UN. "United States" was plural.

[Sporke]

The way the Cowboys have been the past decade, I think my bumper sticker would say “God, Family, Texas”. I’ve given up on my Cowboys. lol

[DoughtyOne]

INVAR, I don’t think you really buy into the idea that Romney was the best candidate we could loft, or that he did everything possible from a Conservative point of view to win.

None the less, fewer than 180,000 flipped votes across three states and Romney would have been president.

We cannot continue to misread the teal leaves and make drastic mistakes that would splinter our nation without real cause.

California has the largest body of Hispanics in the nation. Tell me how Romney appealed directly to them, without even entering the state other than to take $15 million away with him after a fundraiser.

He didn’t even ask for their vote, and yet we’re reading all sorts of truths into what their not voting for him meant or didn’t mean.

Could we have gotten 25% more votes from Hispanics in California if Romney had made a number of appearances across the Southland appealing to them on bedrock beliefs they and we share? There is a strong possibility. And it wouldn’t have had to break the bank.

If you separatists would spend as much energy on getting those Hispanic and Black votes as you do on thinking of reasons why you should leave, I think we’d be a lot better off.

[Tau Food]

So if I understand what you are saying - if we choose to divorce ourselves from being slaves of this regime, and if we would have God as our Sovereign - then we need to leave this country we were born into if we want to continue to worship God and not the state?

You don't "need' to do anything. However, if a person feels that he just can't live in the USA anymore, he should consider moving to a country where he'll be happier rather than deciding that he's going to try to drag all of his neighbors into a civil war.

Why? The most important reason is because if he doesn't emigrate to another country, he's going to continue to live in the USA. And he's probably going to go on complaining long after his neighbors are tired of hearing him.

That's the reality he faces.

[Tau Food]

What makes you think you can just quit the UN? ;-)

[INVAR]

No - Romney was decidedly NOT the candidate for Conservatives. But Obama and the Ruling Class chose him to be the fall guy so the scam of this election would look legit. That’s my take considering I’ve said Cook County went national and we are more like the Soviet Union now in terms of how things will work electively from here on out. We need to get it out of our heads that elections are trustworthy and our votes count. It’s WHO provides the votes and counts them that matters.

As to appealing to Hispanics and blacks with the ideals of Conservatism - that would be the job of citizens and the church - not politicians. What I am hearing from most is that ‘reaching out’ to those constituencies means we must sacrifice our principles in order to ‘win’ them to our side. It will never happen, because if personal responsibility is a core principle of Conservatism, you cannot reason against a people who worship the government Santa Claus.

And that is what this is all about. A majority of people who no longer see God as their Sovereign, but the State as their god. That is what this all boils down to. A people beholden to the bible and religion would not surrender their liberty to worship God as He leads them in order to serve the State.

But free stuff and hatred of those with more than they have - is a defacto religion with those with an entitlement mindset and who loft government into the place religion and God once occupied in this nation.

You are going to discover that we are past the point of resolving differences by any means left to us outside of extreme measures most of this people are not willing to consider. The history of tyrannies is one where the right of the people to follow God is removed and forcibly made to serve the state.

So there are no options left us except to surrender and bow down to worship this regime to get our share of bread, withdraw from it and refuse to comply as our Founders did the Crown - and/or - when the state makes it’s last mistake - force becomes necessary to preserve life and liberty.

[INVAR]

Well Love it or Leave it....

... enjoy your chains. I’m sure you’ll get accustomed to them in no time.

[UnwashedPeasant]

You got me there! :-)

[Tau Food]

... enjoy your chains. I’m sure you’ll get accustomed to them in no time.

Of all the hell holes on this earth, I was blessed by birth and born in the USA . . . and I'm supposed to feel like I'm in chains?

Maybe when we get to our reward, you and I can meet some real slaves who really did spend a lifetime in chains. We can all swap slavery stories and pat one another on the back.

We are so spoiled in this country.

[Quickgun]

Illegals used to come to Texas to work. And they worked their butts off, and yes, there is some truth to the saying that they did jobs that no one else wanted.Often they would get a temporary work permit, often they would not. Mostly farming, and some ranch work, chicken egg farms, etc. Like i said, they kept a very low profile, caused no trouble and asked for nothing but their pay. What has happened as I see it, is that the democrat party saw them as a group they could exploit just as they have the blacks.Promise them free everything,encourage them to have anchor babies in order to expand their voter base. Even if half of them never voted, the democrats don’t care,taxpayers can foot the bill.The relationship Texas had with illegals wasn’t too bad before liberals got involved.

[Quickgun]

Texas.

[Quickgun]

No one has “spoiled” most of us. Many of us have worked a lifetime to have a decent place to live, transportation, and tried to secure a retirement so our last years can be comfortable.Why should we give that up to a power hungry dictator wannabe? Why should we give that up when we don’t have to?

[Pfesser]

I've read many replies asking what Texas will do without federal funds.What a laugh. Where does the fed get it's money? From the states and the states get it from the people.
What a waste! Think of all the funds lost by sending the money from the people to the feds and sent back, with strings attached, back to the state. All that money lost in our vast bureaucracy. Some sent to people who pay no taxes. Texas could keep it's money, if independent, and have funds left over. The real question is what will the feds do without Texas money and how much Texas will save without federal regulations?

[Tau Food]

No one has “spoiled” most of us. Many of us have worked a lifetime to have a decent place to live, transportation, and tried to secure a retirement so our last years can be comfortable.Why should we give that up to a power hungry dictator wannabe? Why should we give that up when we don’t have to?

That's right and why should you have to worry about what your neighbors might want? You're entitled to a whole new country and the neighbors will just have to get used to it.

Wouldn't it be easier to just find another country that makes you happier than this one?

[DoughtyOne]

No - Romney was decidedly NOT the candidate for Conservatives.  I agree.

But Obama and the Ruling Class chose him to be the fall guy so the scam of this election would look legit. That’s my take considering I’ve said Cook County went national and we are more like the Soviet Union now in terms of how things will work electively from here on out.  We need to get it out of our heads that elections are trustworthy and our votes count. It’s WHO provides the votes and counts them that matters.  Okay here's my take on your thoughts here.  You and I agree that Romney wasn't the best guy we could have lofted.  The election figures were very close, as I addressed in my first response to you.  With very little change Romney would have been sworn in as President come January 2013.  Give me a good run by a good man that has shared our views for decades, has defended them, and can respond on point effectively on the spur of the moment.  If he presents his beliefs effectively to all groups, then loses by a wide margin, I would be moved to consider your thoughts much more spot on.  As it is, I think you're jumping to conclusion without basis in fact.     

As to appealing to Hispanics and blacks with the ideals of Conservatism - that would be the job of citizens and the church - not politicians.  You don't mean that.  If you did, then you would also believe that an appeal to any group should be made in the same manner.  Should an appeal to white middle class citizens only be made by citizens and the church, but not politicians?  Of course not.

You don't approach these folks with promises of freebies, but you should approach them talking about crime, education, and economic opportunity, explaining how your administration will be better for them than the administration of your opponent.  You can talk to them frankly face to face, reminding them of what has happened to their community during the last four years.  Then explain the exact policies you would implement to spur improvement, not just for them, but for everyone.  That makes them a member of the team, not a separate people.  These citizens should not be treated any differently than any other.

Use examples of how the grocery store down the block has been impacted.  Explain why people lost jobs.  Explain why your world view would be more healthy, right there on their block.  Failing this, we don't have one leg to stand on when we claim rejection.  We're our policies rejected?  Heck no.  Our policies weren't even presented to them.

What I am hearing from most is that ‘reaching out’ to those constituencies means we must sacrifice our principles in order to ‘win’ them to our side.  Well then, most are wrong.  Hispanics own businesses.  Hispanics see the things the government does first-hand, to burden their businesses.  This matters to them, just like it does us.  I'm not sure where you live, but I live in areas that are heavily populated by Hispanics.  When I drive through those communities, guess what I see.  First, I DO NOT see only homes where the parents stay home all day and the children come home from school in the evenings to find their parents in the same chair in front of the television they were in when they left.  When I drive through these communities, I see hundreds of thousands if not millions of businesses.  These businesses employ Hispanics.

There is a robust economy conducted in these communities.  There are new cars, older cars that are fixed up nice.  There are nice looking homes that are well kept up.  Hispanics are not all poor, all unable or unwilling to work..

My wife works.  My father-in-law worked.  My mother-in-law worked.  My brother-in-law works.  My sister-in-law works  These people have good jobs, and their concerns are your concerns.  Their kids go to public schools.  Their parents are concerned about their education.

Yes, there are takers out there.  You're kidding yourself if you think every Hispanic is a taker.  You're kidding yourself if you think this body of hard working people don't look down on freeloaders too.

It will never happen, because if personal responsibility is a core principle of Conservatism, you cannot reason against a people who worship the government Santa Claus.  It's a mistake to see this body of people in a monolithic terms.  I'll bet you can see the reason of what I have spelled out above.  I'll be that if you think about it, you could add some reasons that you could come up with, that directly challenges the idea this body of people are all takers, and don't have any connection to us at all.

And that is what this is all about. A majority of people who no longer see God as their Sovereign, but the State as their god. That is what this all boils down to. A people beholden to the bible and religion would not surrender their liberty to worship God as He leads them in order to serve the State.

No longer see God as their sovereign - Okay there are no churches in the Hispanic communities, and they don't love Him like you do.  Do you really believe that?

But free stuff and hatred of those with more than they have - is a defacto religion with those with an entitlement mindset and who loft government into the place religion and God once occupied in this nation.  I don't think you're the only one, but you really are allowing your imagination to run wild here.  I do believe that there is a problem with illegal immigration.  I do believe that we are making a big mistake by allowing it, and considering transitioning illegals to citizenship.  That does not mean that the majority of Hispanics are anything like what you're referencing here.

As with any other group of citizens, we need to seek their vote in an intelligent manner that includes talking to folks, and not down to them.  Why are we failing to do so?

You are going to discover that we are past the point of resolving differences by any means left to us outside of extreme measures most of this people are not willing to consider. The history of tyrannies is one where the right of the people to follow God is removed and forcibly made to serve the state.  You just watched us go up against the Left A team with our B team.  Our B team barely bested despite this, you have now come to the conclusion that we can never win another game against their A team.  Seriously, it's this simple.  IMO you're jumping to conclusions wildly.

So there are no options left us except to surrender and bow down to worship this regime to get our share of bread, withdraw from it and refuse to comply as our Founders did the Crown - and/or - when the state makes it’s last mistake - force becomes necessary to preserve life and liberty.  Yep, no options left except fielding our A team next time.  Other than that, you're dead on target.  And sadly, that pretty much destroys the premises you have heralded here.  At least that's my take on it.

[Quickgun]

Most of my neighbors here in Texas feel the same way I do.as far as the other States, let them make their own choices.

[deport]

In my opinion the first step is to let the people of Texas decided if they want to persue a separation. That step should be a process to involve the statewide vote by the citizens. If passed then persue the process via the state legislature/gov’t.

[tbw2]

We should give parts of the Rio Grande Valley back to Mexico and build a fence to block the rest. El Paso, maybe, becomes part of the liberal state next door, but we keep the military base. That moves a lot of blue voters out of Texas.
The problem is then the liberal areas of Dallas, Austin, Houston and San Antonio.