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To: Gaffer
If it needs a subsidy it isn’t real.
So the petroleum industry isn't real then? Agriculture isn't real? higher education isn't real? Dairy isn't real? Poor people aren't real? Big Bird isn't real? I'm shattered!(i guess you win on Big Bird, our government has figured out how to subsidize the fictional varmint.) Mortgage interest isn't real? tell my bank!

most everything gets subsidized these days through no fault of its own, but politicians buying votes with your money. FWIW: the Blenders subsidy winds up in petroleum industry hands not in the hands of farmers or distillers. Ethanol production is not being subsidized, the Petroleum industry is being paid off to participate in what is leading to the reduction of their transportation fuel monopoly.

A single cliche does not make an adequate rebuttal in this case.

29 posted on 10/15/2012 4:22:03 PM PDT by ME-262 (Ichabod)
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To: ME-262
There is a difference between subsidizing an alternate fuel to push fuel use one way than say subsidizing petroleum for other reasons. For petroleum, the largest subsidy is $1B for the Strategic Oil Reserve, the second is $1 billion in tax exemptions for farm fuel. The third is $570 million for the Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program. Mainly political vs. push-use.

Agriculture, milk, et al are politcal also, but are subsidies, not the same kind though as for ethanol. For universities and Big Bird...that's a stretch.

Whether the ethanol subsidies go to the blenders or not, I find it difficult to believe that a farmer would sell his crop to the petroleum industry vs. food industry if there wasn't something tangible in it for him. Diversion of food resources away from the main supply drives prices up especially in drought conditions like now.

As for your anecdotal case of ‘fixing’ your own problem, good for you. However, the case against ethanol use in vehicles because of damage and problems isn't merely anecdotal - there are too many cases. Google wideband 02 sensor problems with ethanol, try looking for gas-ethanol problems related to 2 cycle and even 4 cycle engines. There are too many problems just to chalk this up to those evil petroleum spiking their real gas portion with bad gas. I've got more than one 2-cycle carb I've had to replace because the gaskets and diaphragms were ‘melted’.....

I'm not opposed to alternate fuels; I am opposed to the government ramming it down our throats when the auto industry clearly wasn't prepared for it by designing their fuel systems (gaskets and seals that don't dissolve) to keep from corroding and being damaged by ethanol.

BTW, in your case of ‘fixing’ it, there are models of vehicles now that will reset themselves after three successive ‘good starts’...i.e., running three times with no apparent O2 problem which is usually brought on by ethanol and a long fast coast down a level stretch or hill causing back pressure from the cat to the sensor.

Unless you pulled the sensor and looked at it, I'd say your vehicle designers built in that ‘courtesy reset’ for you. My 2010 F150 does that. My 2009 Accord and my 2005 Accord didn't.

30 posted on 10/16/2012 3:09:17 AM PDT by Gaffer
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