Posted on 06/13/2012 3:41:24 PM PDT by kingattax
The United States Army is debating whether to admit women to Ranger School, its elite training program for young combat leaders.
Proponents argue this is to remove a final impediment to the careers of Army women. But the move would erode the unique Ranger ethos and culture—not to mention the program's rigorous physical requirements—harming its core mission of cultivating leaders willing to sacrifice everything for our nation.
The Army's 75th Ranger Regiment traces its roots back to World War II, when it won acclaim for penetrating deep behind Japanese lines. Founded in 1950, Ranger School teaches combat soldiers small-unit tactics and leadership under extreme duress. It pushes men harder than any other program in the Army's curriculum.
Competition to attend the course is fierce, with about 4,000 men eligible to attend each year. Only about half graduate. Of those, only 20% make it through without having to retake various phases.
For decades, completion of Ranger School has been the best indicator for determining which young men can handle the enormous responsibility of combat leadership
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Travis McGee, you are so spot on there. We managed to prevail in those you listed (even Mogadishu where we avoided annihilation) but in the future, that butcher's bill could be complete annihilation of a unit.
I didn't see that, but if you're done wuppin Force Recon and scaring Marine pilots, stick around, you might learn some more stuff.
That made me laugh.
RLTW
No you can't, a LRRP mission involves (or used to) five men doing that "sneaky" stuff after splitting up equally, 800 to 1000 pounds of gear among themselves and carrying it on their backs, in Desert Storm a British Recon group described their individual packs as 209 pounds at the start of the mission.
I don't think that you would be able to keep up with the 'sneaky stuff' guys if someone put a 170 pound pack on your back.
Wasn't it the Israelis who tried women in combat? The men couldn't handle them being blown to bits.
Wasn't it the Israelis who tried women in combat? The men couldn't handle them being blown to bits.
You mentioned 'recon' again as a job some women can do. You are back to the percentage of a man soldiery again. Got to be able to handle all the tasking required by the MOS or you are a liability to the unit and by extension to the Nation. I'll go out on a limb and guess that isn't where you would want to be. Be qualified to the standard or you can't serve in that MOS; able to do all of it or you can't be trusted with any of it. To do or accept less is contrary to your duty
As for 'larnin stuff' I had earlier mentioned my dad was a Marine pilot in 'Nam, my uncle a chopper pilot there as well. I have two brothers who served in Iraq,one a chopper pilot the other a weapons officer. My mom was a military brat, so all things considered, I have my reasons for being who I am.
All you described was a fit, athletic girl, a long, long ways from being able to meet the demands of Special Operations requirements.
Force recon guy would cut your head off, you see they are aware as well. Which would be a shame since it looks like a nice head even when filled with hokey, fantastic, unrealistic ideas. Got to be 100% qual'ed or why should you be paid?
We are talking about war, right? And that does happen...
If I remember correctly, seeing the women killed made it far more difficult for the men to continue fighting.
Probably not. You carry what you personally need.If you’re on a two person sniper recon you are not carrying that much. I wasn’t talking about an LRRP mission. You ever read about Carlos Hathcock or Chuck Mawhinney? Guess not.
I know what you are saying. On one hand, I could almost say “If a woman can handle the physical part, let her in...” but it is even more than just being able to haul equipment at 13,000 feet for 10 miles.
I am concerned with facets such as logistical considerations. In situations where a very small amount of something can mean the difference between success and failure, the overhead of having even a small change in the logistical chain to accommodate females in a largely male environment can be enough to impact the overall outcome. Kind of the kingdom being lost for want of a nail.
Sigh. It is difficult to even discuss this subject without being perceived as disrespectful towards women. For me, it is nothing of the sort.
Was just saying ... all things considered. You bring on one of your Marine Force Recon to where I live and I’ll have his butt spray painted before he knew what happened.
LOL, I was in my mid-20's, having been a moderately successful Div III athlete, and I met my friend's BIL, who had just left AD from the Rangers, and we were shooting some hoops in the driveway, drinking some beers. He sucked, couldn't hit anything. While he talked about the Rangers, and I wasn't too happy with where my things were going, I thought, Hmmm, Ranger school, get to shoot guns and do cool stuff. Maybe...
Fast forward about a month later, we had a storm in our neighborhood, bunch of trees came down. He was there with a chainsaw, jumping all over trees like a monkey, working easy 12 hours straight.
Like someone said, a man's got to know his limitations.
Now if women can do anything a man can do...
I know just how tough women can be. My Mother was the kindest and gentlest person one could imagine but she was also as tough as they come.
She was born in 1918, the youngest daughter of 12 children. Her Father owned over 1000 acres which was run by him, his wife and the children, along with 10 share croppers. One day when she was in her 80’s she asked me to drive her around where she grew up. She showed me a field which was still there. When she was six she had to go to that field every night and bring the cattle to the home field or barn. In the morning her 2 year older sister took them back to the field.
That field was 5 miles from home. Her Father owned land in Alabama and Florida. He was wealthy but believed in hard work which they all did.
My parents went to the same high school. Mother played basketball and Daddy played baseball and basketball. Despite the fact that their high school did not have a gym but played on outdoor court, they both made it to the state title game. They both lost the final game but mainly because their coach didn’t have sufficient training in nutrition,. They ate nothing but soup the day before the game
After Daddy got back from WWII Mother had saved $3500.00 from his allotment plus Daddy sent his paycheck to her too. He could have all the money he needed and more just by selling his cigarette ration.
After the war ended they bought a small farm and made beautiful crops but Florida did not have a stock law at the time, and even if you fenced your fields they hogs would break them down bu wallowing on them until the fence bent
Daddy got a job at Tyndall afb and we stayed and tried to keep the farm running. Mother worked like a slave. Taking extraordinary care of all of uw and me especially since I had whooping cough and nearly died. My older sister said tha while I had the whooping cough, mother would not let loose of me. She held me constantly while cooking, working in the fields etc.
One day we were walking from a field to home where all of us had been working and a wild hog attacked us. Mother had us all climb trees and she held him off with nothing but a goose neck hoe., and that was a very dangerous thing, that hog could easily killed her but that hog was going against a girl in whose veins flowed the blood of Scottish Warriors including one who killed Sr. Gills DeArgentine..I also recall her shooting a snake in our well. She killed it with the first shot from Daddy’t old Remington .22 Score master then spent hours bailing water until she finally got the dead snake out of the well.
Mother would not have made a good soldier as she would gave tried to comfort and take care of every kid in an outfit. Defending her own she would have been a vicious fighter but still could not have beaten most men.
PS - here’s where I grew up. You’re looking across the Hood Canal to where my home is. Good luck. http://www.drdale.com/
Sounds like a great lady. Very admirable.
And none of them can carry a machine gun for 20 miles.
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