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To: savagesusie
Government always is evil—always produces “evil”—that is understood by all freedom loving people-—that is why the Leviathan HAS to be LIMITED. [...] Being sinful, men do need some government-—but it should always be promoting Christian Ethics

That promotion, if taken far enough, can become the opposite of limited. So the question is whether properly limited government promotion of Christian ethics encompasses prohibition of drugs by any level of government.

True. Now we get into “Just Law”. (See tagline).

Laws should never promote evil—they are “unjust” if they do or if they promote that which is against God’s Laws and the Laws of Nature.

For Radical Liberty—as John Stuart Mill would condone—you can not control any substance even alcohol consumption in children.

I'm against that - children are fundamentally different from adults.

The Founders knew that Virtue was essential for any freedom and civil society. That is why the “general welfare” clause and the idea that Just Law (Rule of Law) depends on Virtue and the idea of “Higher Laws” than arbitrary man-made up law (like Hitlers).

So, Moderation, being one of the Cardinal Virtues, along with Justice, Wisdom, and Courage—it would be a duty of government to allow laws which would create laws which would discourage drug-using

You've made an unsupported leap there: from the necessity of virtue, to governmental imposition of virtuous behavior. I know of no evidence that any of the Founders thought that government force could make people virtuous.

-—like driving laws under the influence which could kill innocent human beings.

I doubt there's more than one person in 1000 who thinks DUI laws' discouragement of drinking is any more than a side-effect of the laws' goal of protecting innocent lives.

government should have the ability to punish actions which destroy other people and their freedoms.

Certainly - and drug use does not destroy other people or their freedoms, whether the drug is alcohol or any other substance.

Should drug dealers be prosecuted when selling to minors. Absolutely.

Agreed.

Should cocaine be outlawed—and meth-—yes. The destruction of society and family and the severe costs to civil society was noted in China during the Opium Wars.

Ours is a very different society than 19th century China. And unlike China, the USA is not being forced by a foreign power to accept drug shipments.

There is a destruction of the family unit with rampant drug use

Who said anything about "rampant" drug use? This old bogeyman assumes that there are millions of American adults who are deterred from using drugs by their current illegality but under legalization would be undeterred by the inherent harms of drug use. That's counterintuitive, to put it mildly - are YOU such a person?

And while I agree that a parent violates his/her minor children's rights by drugging him/herself into a state of inability to meet his/her parental responsibilities, I vigorously disagree that this is sufficient reason to ban drug use for ALL adults including those without minor children. (If it were sufficient reason, we should return to Prohibition of the drug alcohol.)

and promotion [...] Evil can never be promoted in a civil society. [...] Should we have laws which prevent the promotion of Evil. Yes

I could accept bans on advertising of legalized drugs. But to allow is not to "promote."

86 posted on 06/12/2012 8:47:22 AM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: JustSayNoToNannies

Agreed—about my leap. But, it is a fact that all the Founders and the Ancient Greeks (Plato, Socrates and Aristotle) knew that Virtue was necessary for civil society to be possible. The Founders all attributed Virtue to religion (Christianity to be specific).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2052821/posts

Without religion and the promotion of Virtue—which is the reason for education (even the Greeks stated that)—character is built and formed in childhood and so education had to teach Virtue—it was the sole reason to have education (for the Greeks and the Founders).

For you to say drug use does no harm to others is completely naive and false. It always harms children in the house because of impaired mental capacity. Look at the woman who was just picked up for smoking marijuana who had left her baby (accidentally?) on the top of her car when she drove off.

Any substance which impairs logic and reason and destroys the inhibition of destructive emotions promotes evil is many cases. Laws always exist for the prevention of evil to vulnerable groups—of course, the children are the most vulnerable and the most damaged by drugs.

I deal with children raised by alcoholics who have been emotionally damaged and abused by such out-of-control parents. This not only made their childhood hell, it is hard for them to treat their own offspring with love and not abuse them. Their behavior is learned and habituated—as all behavior.

The damage done by selfish drug use in horrendous to all societies. Drugs,by their very nature, make addicts and slaves of people. It is narcissism and a disregard for other human beings—uncivil, especially for those that rely on these people for love and support.

It is the opposite of freedom and goodness because it destroys control and logic and reason. it destroys the moral and rational aspects of man, which lifts men above that of base animal instincts.


88 posted on 06/12/2012 11:36:07 AM PDT by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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