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To: redgolum
"The implication is that it is not your fault for you addiction...A habit can be very strong, but that still has an element of will in it."

What you clearly fail to understand is that the natural inclination of an alcoholic's will is to drink. It's a common misunderstanding that an alcoholic "has little or no will." The fact of the matter is, if you lock up an alcoholic in prison, he'll find a way to ferment fruit in a commode. An alcoholic will risk family, career, freedom and life itself in order to drink, and in fact, many fall into despair because they can not overcome their will to do so.

The drinking itself is a symptom, not the dysfunction. Many alcoholics do become "dry drunks," and while they "resist" indulging their "habit" (as you call it) they still suffer from many other unsettled aspects of alcoholism.

77 posted on 06/11/2012 8:42:13 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack
So that inmate gathered the materials, fermented the wine, with out any act of will on his part? Sorry, that is not possible. He choose to do it. His addiction drove him to it, and made the choice not to make toilet wine to painful to choose, but it was not an automatic response.

Or look at it another way. I know women who are addicted to shopping. They go to the mall, buy things they don't need, just for that little high they get. One has hit rock bottom, and is in danger of losing everything. It is an addiction, and she is arguing that "I have no choice but to shop! IT IS A DISEASE!" to her creditors. Is she a victim or an active participant?

Or how about my previous example of those who over eat massive amounts. We have had two gastric bypass surgeries at the plant in the last few years, both by people who say "I have a disease! I have no choice but to over eat! I am addicted to food!" One would smuggle in soft drinks and chips to the control. Should they be excused for all responsibility because they have a disease that they can't control? Or do they have a habit that can be controlled, or changed?

78 posted on 06/12/2012 4:20:32 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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