Thank you for the comprehensive explanation. I figured as much. Is it significant that the Mississippi lawyers went out of their way to state that they’re not asking the court to take “judicial notice” of Obama’s April 27, 2011, long form?
Also, are you saying that when the Hawaiian Dept. of Health generates a certificate on a computer, they don’t actually emboss it with the seal? They print an image of a seal on it? Something that can’t be felt? I always thought that after printing the data on the form, they stamped the registrar’s signature and embossed it with the seal.
It seems to me that the lawyers also expect the court to accept the verification letter as proof that the long form birth certificate image isn’t forged, because they say that the information, using their word, is “true.” But Onaka didn’t say it was true. He said it matches. He admits that they didn’t do anything to confirm what he calls the facts of the vital event. He only used the information on the records they have to find the facts about the vital event. That’s not saying it’s true.
I stand corrected on a number of fronts, after looking further.
First off, I can’t remember how I had come up with the seals made of dashes being created by computer. I can’t see anything that allows a computer to raise the surface of a piece of paper. So that’s just wrong.
The seal used on the MDEC verification is not the registrar’s seal; the registrar’s seal is the seal with dashes, that’s seen on all the short-forms. What is on this verification is actually the official Department of Health seal, which is supposed to accompany THE DIRECTOR’s signature on official communications.
Two clear differences between the registrar’s seal and the Director/DOH’s official seal are:
1. the size (the DOH/Director’s seal has to be 2 1/4” in diameter, and that’s what this one is - as I saw when I C&P’ed the image into Word and stretched it diagonally until it was 8 1/2” wide like normal office paper, and then measured the diameter of the seal); and
2. the stars between “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII” (the registrar’s stamp has circles instead).
To be legally valid, the long-form that Obama received would have required the DOH/Director’s seal, according to the HDOH Administrative Rules - because a standard certificate is required to have either the seal of the State OR the official DOH seal. The short-forms have the printed seal of the State of Hawaii at the top, as do these verifications so they don’t have to have the official DOH seal; they can (and do) have the smaller registrar’s seal. Obama’s long-form was copied by a copier/scanner, so there wasn’t a computer to add the State of Hawaii seal to the top of the document. That means that the official 2 1/4” DOH seal was required to be used.
In the past (until at least May of 1979, based on images I have) they have certified long-forms by having the certifying statement (”true and correct copy of the original record on file” - this is the STANDARD language for verifying genuineness in Hawaii government) on the top of the certification area, the DOH Director’s signature stamp to the left and the state registrar’s signature stamp to the right, and the official, 2 1/4” DOH stamp in the middle overlapping both signatures. That meets the requirements of both the HDOH Administrative Rules (because it has the official DOH seal instead of the seal of the State of Hawaii) and Title 11-1 (because the seal is over the signature of the Director of Health).
That is how Obama’s long-form should be certified, in order to meet those legal requirements. And this verification shows clearly that they have an official DOH seal embosser so there was no reason for them to NOT certify Obama’s BC according to legal requirements.
The “seal” on Obama’s posted long-form is not the right size to be the same seal as this one. A 2 1/4” seal is a large seal. The embosser suppliers that I looked up have 2” seals as their largest seals. Somebody ordering a 2 1/4” embosser would stick out like a sore thumb - and garner attention. The approximately 1 7/8” seal that is used on Obama’s long-form would be easy and inconspicuous to order with a vague design in the middle that wouldn’t raise any suspicions of forgery intentions - and then pressed lightly enough to just show there’s a ring around the outside and something vague in the middle.
The placement of the seal on Obama’s long-form is also conspicuous. Embossers are like a stapler, where the paper can only go so far in so there’s a maximum distance from the edge that a seal can be. The registrar’s stamp is applied from the right side of the paper on all the short-forms. If you tried to apply it to the left side of the paper as on Obama’s long-form it would end up being upside-down. The official DOH seal is applied from the bottom of the paper, and I doubt even an extended-reach embosser would be able to get it up as high on the page as Obama’s forged “seal” is.
So why did they put the “seal” right there on the left-hand side, rather than on the right-hand side as short-forms have, or at the bottom as legitimate long-forms from the past have? They put that “seal” right over the place for notations of affidavits filed in support of late and amended filings. Putting the “seal” there could help cover up the editing they had to do to get rid of those statements, if they even used the document from the HDOH as the base document - that is, if somebody from the HDOH did the ABSTRACT for them (based on affidavits on file but remaining legal because the marks showing legal non-validity were still present) rather than simply supplying the base documents for the Obama people to create the forgery themselves.
In terms of this verification, my question would be why Loretta Fuddy didn’t sign this, since her signature is supposed to be there when the official DOH seal is used. OR why Onaka didn’t use the registrar’s seal instead of the official DOH seal.
I stand corrected on a number of fronts, after looking further.
First off, I can’t remember how I had come up with the seals made of dashes being created by computer. I can’t see anything that allows a computer to raise the surface of a piece of paper. So that’s just wrong.
The seal used on the MDEC verification is not the registrar’s seal; the registrar’s seal is the seal with dashes, that’s seen on all the short-forms. What is on this verification is actually the official Department of Health seal, which is supposed to accompany THE DIRECTOR’s signature on official communications.
Two clear differences between the registrar’s seal and the Director/DOH’s official seal are:
1. the size (the DOH/Director’s seal has to be 2 1/4” in diameter, and that’s what this one is - as I saw when I C&P’ed the image into Word and stretched it diagonally until it was 8 1/2” wide like normal office paper, and then measured the diameter of the seal); and
2. the stars between “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII” (the registrar’s stamp has circles instead).
To be legally valid, the long-form that Obama received would have required the DOH/Director’s seal, according to the HDOH Administrative Rules - because a standard certificate is required to have either the seal of the State OR the official DOH seal. The short-forms have the printed seal of the State of Hawaii at the top, as do these verifications so they don’t have to have the official DOH seal; they can (and do) have the smaller registrar’s seal. Obama’s long-form was copied by a copier/scanner, so there wasn’t a computer to add the State of Hawaii seal to the top of the document. That means that the official 2 1/4” DOH seal was required to be used.
In the past (until at least May of 1979, based on images I have) they have certified long-forms by having the certifying statement (”true and correct copy of the original record on file” - this is the STANDARD language for verifying genuineness in Hawaii government) on the top of the certification area, the DOH Director’s signature stamp to the left and the state registrar’s signature stamp to the right, and the official, 2 1/4” DOH stamp in the middle overlapping both signatures. That meets the requirements of both the HDOH Administrative Rules (because it has the official DOH seal instead of the seal of the State of Hawaii) and Title 11-1 (because the seal is over the signature of the Director of Health).
That is how Obama’s long-form should be certified, in order to meet those legal requirements. And this verification shows clearly that they have an official DOH seal embosser so there was no reason for them to NOT certify Obama’s BC according to legal requirements.
The “seal” on Obama’s posted long-form is not the right size to be the same seal as this one. A 2 1/4” seal is a large seal. The embosser suppliers that I looked up have 2” seals as their largest seals. Somebody ordering a 2 1/4” embosser would stick out like a sore thumb - and garner attention. The approximately 1 7/8” seal that is used on Obama’s long-form would be easy and inconspicuous to order with a vague design in the middle that wouldn’t raise any suspicions of forgery intentions - and then pressed lightly enough to just show there’s a ring around the outside and something vague in the middle.
The placement of the seal on Obama’s long-form is also conspicuous. Embossers are like a stapler, where the paper can only go so far in so there’s a maximum distance from the edge that a seal can be. The registrar’s stamp is applied from the right side of the paper on all the short-forms. If you tried to apply it to the left side of the paper as on Obama’s long-form it would end up being upside-down. The official DOH seal is applied from the bottom of the paper, and I doubt even an extended-reach embosser would be able to get it up as high on the page as Obama’s forged “seal” is.
So why did they put the “seal” right there on the left-hand side, rather than on the right-hand side as short-forms have, or at the bottom as legitimate long-forms from the past have? They put that “seal” right over the place for notations of affidavits filed in support of late and amended filings. Putting the “seal” there could help cover up the editing they had to do to get rid of those statements, if they even used the document from the HDOH as the base document - that is, if somebody from the HDOH did the ABSTRACT for them (based on affidavits on file but remaining legal because the marks showing legal non-validity were still present) rather than simply supplying the base documents for the Obama people to create the forgery themselves.
In terms of this verification, my question would be why Loretta Fuddy didn’t sign this, since her signature is supposed to be there when the official DOH seal is used. OR why Onaka didn’t use the registrar’s seal instead of the official DOH seal.
Now to answer your actual questions. lol
I do believe it is significant that the lawyers made sure to say they aren’t asking for “judicial notice” of Obama’s LF. That, together with their “convenient” wording that kept the legal validity of the actual record at the HDOH from being revealed, suggests to me that they know darn good and well that Obama’s record is legally non-valid. They saw the verification that AZ received, and they may well have seen what both Mike Zullo and myself (in a post I posted 2 days before these lawyers requested this verification) - as well as a bunch of others both here on FR and elsewhere - were saying about what the “wording” changes meant. If they knew there was a form submitted and that the HDOH would not verify ANY of the information from that form, they knew the BC could not be legally valid. So they “conveniently” worded things in a way so that HI would never be put on the spot actually verifying any legal facts (except the existence of a record of unspecified legal validity).
And their seeming knowledge of that suggests that they are trying to deceive the court, as you say. They technically only talk about the information, but their italicizing the statute saying that a verification is certification that the facts of the vital event occurred AS STATED BY THE APPLICANT misleads the court into thinking that the applicant actually DID state anything about the vital event. They didn’t. They only asked for verification that the vital facts about the birth that were claimed on Obama’s (forged) LFBC match the vital facts about the birth that are claimed on the (legally non-valid) BC at the HDOH.
Your questions about the seal caused me to look further, as I noted in my last post. And what I found is important. This is why it is so much better to work with others than to work alone. Your questions sparked a whole different avenue of investigation, that I would not have thought of myself. This has happened SO MANY times - from people who intend to help me AND from people who intend to debunk and derail me.
I’ve been accused in the past of not crediting the people who deserve credit for the information that I post about. Guilty as charged. There are way too many people whose comments, questions, and insights have contributed to what we know so far. I just hope and pray that you all know who you are and how UTTERLY VALUABLE your contributions are. This is really and truly a team effort, and I’m just thankful that I get to be a small part of it. I hope that someday we’ll get the usurper out of office, the truth becomes known, and all those who pitched in receive the thanks and recognition due them.
THANK YOU for your questions that gave me a nudge in the right direction so I could find out my mistake and learn new things.