Posted on 06/04/2012 2:40:56 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Got a cite for that proposition? He applied in 2004, but never attended. He completed a 14 hour "Citizen's Police Academy" course in 2008, so I don't think you are referring to that part of his background.
-- You are aware that Zimmerman left the car to chase Martin. --
Yeah but, what were his intentions? I think his intention was to maintain nothing more than visual contact with a fleeing person. That would be consistent with his past action involving suspicious persons in the neighborhood, and even known persons who he reported to police. Zimmerman was "contact averse" in every single event in his neighborhood watch past.
-- You are aware that the lead homicide detective did not believe Zimmermans story. He called it "contrived." --
The part Serino labeled as "contrived" was Zimmerman's assertion that Martin uttered a death threat. It was too pat an element of events, in part because such a threat, on its own (if credible and imminent), justifies use of deadly force in response. I don't recall any other part of Zimmerman's account that was referred to as "contrived" or "possibly contrived."
-- You are aware that it is only Zimmerman's word that Martin chased him down. --
I don't know of anybody involved in the case making the claim that Martin chased Zimmerman down. There is speculation, based on evidence, that Martin initiated close contact, but none that it required him to chase Zimmerman or that he elected to chase Zimmerman.
-- ... you are the only person I know of to hold Tom Robinson responsible for his own death. --
The point being made is that just as it is absurd to hold Robinson responsible for events that unfolded, it is absurd to hold Zimmerman responsible for Martin's actions. If you are going to excuse Robinson for events outside his control, you should excuse Zimmerman too - or else come up with evidence other than what is on the public record, to support assigning blame to Zimmerman.
That's your problem. All you have are opinions not grounded in facts. And you invent things to support your opinions. When others give you facts, you can't handle them. You're like a mockingbird.
Don’t you kind of get the idea that prosecution is going to “nickle and dime” the judge unto death with stuff?
Seriously. Shelly Zimmerman was asked about this under oath. She said she did not know the exact amount but Robert Zimmerman Jr. did as he had control of the money. Why didn’t they just ask him? Everyone else knew about the website and paypal account. Crump was all snarky about it. IIRC his original 2 attorneys knew about it.
Just like with Tom Robinson in the book, the physical evidence showed that Zimmerman did not assault Trayvon. The physical evidence shows that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman. So what BLOC77 seems to be addressing is the philosophical question of why this episode ended up in death, and the conclusion being that it had to be because of Zimmerman.
Like it or not, once Trayvon saw that gun, somebody had to end up dead. Trayvon was using deadly force against Zimmerman in spite of Trayvon himself not being given so much as a scratch from Zimmerman. Say whatever anybody wants about the drugs, provocation, etc, but the physical evidence shows that Trayvon was on a rampage and seems to have had both the capability and the desire to do Zimmerman serious harm if not kill him. Once Trayvon pounded Zimmerman’s head on the concrete the decision had been made that one or the other of those was going to end up dead and the other charged with a crime. If it hadn’t been Trayvon dead it would have been Zimmerman.
That is the choice that people sometimes make, BLOC77. It is not because somebody provoked them - whether by following them, by looking sideways at them, or simply by virtue of existing (which is the Muslim excuse for raping and murdering - since the very existence of an infidel or a beautiful woman is provocation that is irresistible).
Unless Trayvon’s life was in danger because of Zimmerman, his choice to bang Zimmerman’s head against the concrete was a crime. Unless Zimmerman’s life was in danger because of Trayvon, Zimmerman’s choice to shoot Trayvon was a crime. So which one of them was guilty of a crime, BLOC77? Based on the injuries that occurred before the fatal shot was fired, whose life was in danger - Trayvon’s, or Zimmerman’s? If you admire Atticus Finch, then show the courage of addressing the actual evidence, like he did.
How those 2 arrived at that point is mostly irrelevant to the issue of who was justified in their use of force. The only legal justification for the use of deadly force against another is self-defense. Which of those guys acted in self-defense, based on the evidence?
There are a lot of young black men who are dying at the hands of other young black men. As long as we make excuses for them, we’re only making it more likely to continue. At some point we have to say the obvious: You start banging somebody’s head against the concrete just because you’re mad, and either you or the other person is going to end up dead and the other in jail. It’s a fact of life. Get smart or you’re gonna end up dead or in prison. The gangsta life you seek to emulate is a trap that leads to death or death row. Wake up.
In fact, if you want to assign blame for this, I nominate Trayvon’s school, who knew that he was doing and/or selling drugs, stealing, and assaulting a bus driver - and yet they didn’t report any of that to the cops so Trayvon could get help before he did something stupid that ended his life. Some favor that school did Trayvon, huh? I bet the reason they didn’t do anything to intervene in the death spiral Trayvon was in was because they were afraid of being called racist - because people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and these money-hungry lawyers act as if anybody who tries to intervene in the “young Black man’s death dance” must be racist.
With “friends” like those, Trayvon (and thousands of young Black men like him) don’t need enemies.
When I was a boy, there was one prominent black family in our neighborhood with a mother and father and many boy and girl children. I played ball with one of their sons in fact, at a makeshift softball field in a hollow where neighborhood folks came to play and watch the games. Sides chosen my a captian of each team played hard and enjoyed the games.
One of the sons of this black family got into serious criminal trouble, by stealing and getting caught. There were no calls to lynch the guy, and the legal system dealt with him as any other thief caught in the act (he tried to hide in a store, in the attic, then come down after closing and rob the lace). And though he was convicted in court, he was released to his father's custody. The boy would have been netter off in jail! His father nto only came down on him like a truck of bricks, he worked him very hard and restricted his life to no outside the home activities for an amazing length of time. The guy's mother made it very clear to him that he had dishonored their family and she was more than just disappointed in him.
As life sometimes flickers onward, it happened that the guy's father was shot int he stomach by a racist businessman a few years later. The afther was confined to a wheelchair thereafter until he died. BUT the guy who had been disciplined by his father and made to know he was a disgrace to the family became a major contributor to the upkeep of that then struggling family. And he has siblings who have become teachers, nurses, successful businessmen and a very talented and insightful emergency medical person.
Now, what do we conclude is probably the reason Trayvon went bad? Yup, lack of familial discipline. I used to play checkers with that wheelchair bound father. He was a kind man and had amazing insight into folks in the community. He was also a God-fearing man who forgave the racist jerk who shot him in a fit of drunken rage.
It never occurs to the apologists for this gangsta crap that a guy like George Zimmerman is probably dying inside over having had to shoot the punk who attacked. To live and be the father to his family, George had to end the threat to his life. He did and now the leftist and racists in America want us to focus upon diversions for exploitations sake, rather than get at the real reason(s) this tragedy occurred. The rel reasons have nothing to do with George being legally armed or Treyvon's drug use, or failure to retreat from a confrontation (though I don't see how George could have done that from on his back with a raging black teen atop him trying to bash his head intot he sidewalk). The real reasons this happened are related to the entitlement scam which has caused black families to become little more than a mother and daughter trying to keep a house for one or more children who have been abandoned by their biological fathers, for whatever reasons. If we look deeply enough into Trayvon's life, we will find parents more dedicated to their own pleasures than the raising of their children. But THAT reality will be carefully avoided, especially by an exploitative media and democrat party racist agenda.
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1) Please provide proof that Martin committed "assault with intent to murder".....we all know that you can't.
2) Talking trash about freepers behind their back...exactly what one would expect from you.
Nice try, bozo.
When and where did that happen? Do you have a link?
I loved “The Blind Side”. When Michael went back to the slum he came from and the gangsta big-shots were talking smack about his new “sister”, I had palpable fear that this man who had come so far would die from bullets slung around as if they were toys, as if a human life was no big loss. As if it was a game of “chicken” and winning the appearance was more important than the lives that would be lost by it.
When Leanne was talking at the end about the newspaper clipping describing a young black man shot by another in the slums - who had shown athletic promise - and she said that could have been Michael.... I really hurt, because these kids are selling themselves short. They’re throwing their lives away, for the sake of a “cool” or “bad” image.
What makes the difference between Michael and the guy in the newspaper clipping - or the difference between Trayvon and the young man you described? They make their own choices, yes. But I also think Leanne Touhy made a big difference to Michael. The boy’s dad, in your story, made a huge difference. There was somebody who believed those young men were precious - precious enough to save, like china plates, rather than throw away like a paper plate after the party’s laughter dies away.
Trayvon was messed up, but under it all was a guy who was worth saving. Though lots of people saw exactly where he was headed nobody did a thing to tell him his life was too valuable to be thrown away for an image. Instead they pounced on his death like vultures seeing some money they could pick off his bones. The Black Panthers put a bounty on the head of George Zimmerman - in wide open - and nobody did a thing about it. The same bad-a$$ attitude that got Trayvon killed was on open display and not one of our so-called “law enforcement” people did a thing about it. They could just as well have done a Bernadine Dohrn and stuck a fork in Trayvon’s dead body and said “Dig it!” A young man DIED because of the gangsta bad-a$$ devil-may-care attitude, and the Black Panthers are dancing on his grave with the same bad-a$$ attitude that’s going to kill MORE kids like Trayvon.
And the political people pick their noses at best.
I know Cboldt advised me not to emotionally invest myself in trying to talk sense to people who won’t listen, and that’s probably good counsel, but I literally get sick to my stomach watching what the vultures are doing, and knowing that it’s gonna result in more young kids who will never see their potential come to fruition because they chose instead to play with fire as if they could never get burned by it.
Dang it, when are we going to tell them that fire kills, and that we want them to live, not die? We will not laugh and wink at what will come back and kill them.
Are you trying to claim that Zimmerman held a gun to Trayvon and Trayvon responded by banging Zimmerman’s head against the concrete in order to get rid of the gun?
If not, then exactly how was Trayvon’s life threatened, that he had to pound Zimmerman’s head against the concrete?
We know that Trayvon received ZERO injuries from Zimmerman except the bullet wound that killed him, and that was only after Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman banging his head on the concrete while Zimmerman screamed for somebody to get help, so any “threat to his life”
wasn’t from an actual physical assault on Trayvon’s person.
Exactly what posed a serious threat to Trayvon’s life, that justified his banging Zimmerman’s head on the concrete?
There was a thread about it. I thought I had the link handy but can’t find it right now. I’ll see if I can find it when I get back from work/taking my daughter to the pool, if somebody else hasn’t posted it. The claim was that his brother (maybe cousin? It’s been a while since I read about it) bragged about Trayvon beating up a bus driver/ The school ended up suspending him for “going where he was unauthorized to go”. Hard to keep the different stories straight though, because although Crump mentioned 3 school suspensions, he would only ever talk about the drugs and “graffiti” (where probable theft was discovered but swept under the rug - which seems to be a pattern with the way the school dealt with these suspensions for what was more like juvenile crime than merely breaking school rules).
My daughter’s been waiting on me for a long time already and her patience is wearing thin. I’ll look for that link when I get back.
IOW...you have no proof at all. Got it.
There was a tweet on martin’s account where-in some kid wrote that he had ‘heard’ that martin had punched a bus driver. There was no other mention of it anywhere and martin didn’t reply saying that he had done it.
What was the place that Trayvon went without authorization - that was serious enough to get him suspended for a while? What documentation have we seen regarding that, and why won’t Crump or Trayvon’s family ever talk about that?
Sheesh, my daughter is mad. I’m off.
This was my thought also and I'm curious why GZ team didn't say so. IF he had used that money to post bail they probably would have nicked him on that!
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I didn't write that at all, did I?
I asked a freeper to provide proof for his statement that martin assaulted zimmerman with intent to kill. He can't provide any...can you?
Zimmerman's injuries and martin's lack of them only indicate that zimmerman can't fight (although he sure can scream). It proves nothing about who started the fight.
You asked; "Exactly what posed a serious threat to Trayvon’s life, that justified his banging Zimmerman’s head on the concrete?"
That's asking for speculation so here goes...
Maybe martin was defending himself from the adult stranger with a gun who had gotten out of his car to follow him in the dark.
My advice was a little different from that. I had in mind the waste of time that is spent in dialog with wtc911 or BLOC77, in the hope they might have a change of mind.
Time taken to persuade strangers who make no difference should be viewed as time wasted - fine if you are only seeking entertainment, but don't make any emotional investment in it.OTOH, taking time with those who are directly involved in bad situations, well, that may or may not be a waste of time.
Just remember that you can't control what is in another person's heart. If change is to occur there, it can only come from them, if they will themselves to change.
Here are a couple links. Dan Linehan does a pretty good job of fact checking and logic checking himself. I don't have the same comfort level about material posted at theconservativetreehouse.
As Dan Linehan, a blogger at Wagist.com, pointed out, correspondence with Martin on Twitter before he died alludes to an incident with a bus driver. "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21.Trayvon Martin shooting: New details emerge from Twitter account - The Cutline - Yahoo! News, Mar 26, 2012
He did exactly what a Neighborhood Watch member should: observed suspicious behavior, reported to police, kept an eye on the suspect, made some form of “what are you doing?” contact. There is no evidence that he started a fight. Would that more residents would pipe up with “can I help you?” and 911 calls when suspicious activity is underway, that more crime would be deterred. Yes there is risk of what happened; residents should not feel obligated to cower in fear instead.
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