Well Jeff, I'm sorry that I haven't done as much for the conservative movement as you all. I'm sorry I don't play the guitar and wear a neat looking cowboy hat at Tea Parties. I'm stuck with merely standing up for actual conservatives instead of non-conservative progressive leftist candidates. I guess if that means I just turn out to be useless for the conservative movement, then so be it. Nevertheless, I shall attempt better things than simply voting for the lesser of two evils because I've been scared half out of my wits by people screaming that voting for a third party equals voting for Obama. I actually believe conservatism can win when it doesn't present itself as a near carbon copy of the Left.
Instead, you choose to make bald faced assetrtions about others which are simply false and meant only to marginalize those with whom you disagree as if though by simply stating such rediculous, bombastic statements it makes them true...almost like you were taking such points right out of Alinsky’s play book. Can’t you see that?
You know, when I made my comment about social autists, I actually meant it, as in, I wasn't just saying it to be bombastic or to rile people up, but was intending it to be an actual diagnosis of what I was observing. I really meant it as a serious question when I asked why it is that the pro-Romney people on here seem like they MUST assume, even in the absence of evidence for any particular FReeper, that non-support for Romney must be due to animus against his religion (i.e., you might like to go back and check the train of comments, the "context," that led to my post). I know you all are not unintelligent people, so how else can we explain folks who seem determined to simply dismiss all of the arguments we've made as "made up," and chalk our opposition to Romney up to our being "anti-Mormon"? What else can I think but that you all are simply psychologically incapable of even acknowledging the legitimacy of any viewpoint but your own, almost as if you cannot even comprehend that someone would hold to it? That IS social autism, Jeff, whether the term offends you or not.
Rogue yam and Drew68 tell us that we're nothing but closet Obama supporters. BB compares us to "Darwinists" who can't even understand her arguments (which is funny, because she wouldn't say this about *me*, at least, if she knew who I am). The whole lot say that we're just "anti-Mormon" and this is why we oppose Romney. Bad, bad arguments all, with little seeming balance of "hey, you know, I know Romney really is a leftist, but here's why I think he's conservative enough for a principled conservative to still support comfortably." About the best we get from you all is breathless arguments that "if you don't vote for Romeny then YOU'RE VOTING FOR OBAMA!!!!!" And guess what, Jeff, that IS an argument based on fear. Somehow, we're supposed to settle for voting for a guy who's practically as bad as Obama - because if we don't, Obama will win again. that's fear, Jeff. That's trying to replace rational argument FOR your candidate with simple-minded fearmongering against another. It might work, if Romney was a decent-though-flawed conservative. But when they're six of one, half a dozen of another, it just doesn't wash anymore.
Let's face it - we have no evidence that Romney won't continue many of the same things that we hate about Obama (and, if we're honest, Bush before him).
Will Romney end the unconstitutional czars, of will he perpetuate them, and a ton of FReepers will suddenly find that they're cool with them now?
Will Romney do anything about the TSA overreaches, the expansions of the VIPR program, etc.?
Will Romney do anything about the "Food Safety Modernisation Act" and its potential to destroy the liberty of citizens to even grow their own gardens and sell to their neighbours (or sell milk, as the Amish are already finding out?)
Will Romney do anything to roll back the parts of the PATRIOT ACT that are unconstitutional?
These, and many, many more, are all important questions that should be answered, rather than swept under the rug with the argument that "at least he's not Obama." True. He's not Obama. But we don't know that he'll be any better than Obama, and none of you have really made the case that he would be.
Sorry - I'm not comfortable voting for a guy based on somebody else's opinion as to how the roll of the dice might turn out.
I never said Darwinists don't understand my arguments. I said I had mainly been unsuccessful in getting them to question their presuppositions.
Don't write into me what I didn't say. And I don't care *who* you are: a misrepresentation is a misrepresentation.
Must run.
I do not agree with it...I think it will effectively give Obama another term if too many people do it...which I think is the worst of all the outcomes in this election...but I understand it and respect it. In many ways, the GOP has brought such a course of action from folks who choose that way on themselves.
I have not said that anyone who is against Romney is "anti-Mormon," though others may have. To the contrary, based on what I just posted, I feel that most are not "anti-Mormon," but are doing it out of their own commitment to principle, even if I disagree with it.
That said, there are definitley some who are clearly "anti-Mormon," in their motivations as much or more than they are in their politcal principle basis, and it pervades their comments and posts regarding the matter and is obvious to anyone seeing them...but it is certainly, IMHO, not the majority.
In addition, thought I do not want or like, and personally will not do anything by my action or inaction to allow Obama another term...it is because of his record and his success and effectiveness in dismantling our republic. Not that I fear the man, per sey, much more that I want to do all I can to extend the blessings of liberty and our foundational republican and moral way of life for my kids and grandkids. That's doing it out of love for them, not fear of Obama or any of his other cohorts or abettors.
So...you will have to do what you are going to do for the reasons you choose, as is your right. I respect that right, and I respect the reasons most people are choosing to stand against the GOP establishment.
I personally, because of the reasons I have listed here several times...people I know and respect who lived under Romney's governance, people I know and respect who know the Romney's and have attended Church with him and been involved as he was their church leader before being governor, my own research into the Mass State System and how they have impacted the capabilities of their Governors, the vetoes Romney issued, the changes he says he has made, and the issues he lists and states very directly he is running on.
Based on all of that, despite the instances in his record which I flatly disagree with, I believe the man, if elected will be orders of magnitude better than Obama and will lead, with a majority House and Senate which we must elect in any case, a strong turn around in America.
I honestly belive that, and that honest belief is based on my own research and conversations with people who are much closer to the time he was Governor, and much closer to the Romnies themselves than I am.
it is not blind, it is not autistic, it is not fear motivated, and it is not simply wishful thinking. I will admit that there is hope involved...but hope based on those things I listed is a good and healthy hope I believe Betty Boop comes at it from much the same perspective...but will not pretend to speak to that detail for her.
I hope you will realize, as I do in respecting your decision though not agreeing with it, that the basis for my own is equally deserving of your respect as opposed to the labeling you have been broad brushing...even if you clearly do not agree with it.
I do believe all of us can and should work on the House and Senate at the Federal level, and at the state and local levels to elect as many strong conservatives who base their campaigns on our fundamental moral and republican principles which undergird the constitution. That is surely an area where we can agree and work together.
The other is going to be what it is going to be...I am going to work hard to defeat Obama and get Romney elected in his stead...and that will either work or not. In either case, electing these others is just as compelling and importnat to me and I believe to most others here on FR.
God's speed.