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To: svcw

You seem to be more than a little biased about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members, even if your uncle is a former Bishop. And you are wrong on the facts. This, however, is not a time to launch a religious war (offensive or defensive) or fan the flames of religious prejudice and misunderstanding. It is a time to recognize the core evil we are fighting and pull together. Focusing on religious hyperbole (which looks and smells a lot like religious racism), and accusing Mormons of being brain dead about our beliefs plays only into the hands of the evil left.

I am a life-long Mormon and given time and opportunity I would be happy to explain why. Trust me, I know the truth in what I believe, and yet I know there is much about eternity, science, life and light, not to mention religion, yet to be learned. And I know Mitt. (Went to the same law school, attended Church in the same building, even interviewed once at his company). But I did not support him during the primaries. I wish he were more conservative.

Hopefully, the primaries have pushed him to the right. But if he becomes the nominee, I darn sure will support him. And not because I know him and am a member of his religion. And not because I want a Mormon in the White House (I don’t). And not because I believe Mitt will become less opportunistic and less of a pragmatic utilitarian who bases his decisions on cost-benefit calculations. (I can hope). I will support him for one reason only. Because I believe Obama MUST be defeated.

In the meantime, I heartily recommend the commentary on this subject by Dennis Prager. He is speaking with much wisdom:

http://www.dennisprager.com/columns.aspx?g=87930830-630e-4713-8b80-f9a1c62fb319&url=evangelicals_and_romney_should_theology_matter


51 posted on 04/27/2012 7:46:17 PM PDT by LukeSW (The truth shall make you free!)
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To: LukeSW

What did I say that was incorrect?
I don’t just have an uncle who is lds, I have many, many lds family and friends.
I know mormonism.
I never accused mormons of being brain dead about mormonism, but I might use that phrase in the future.
I do not support liberals whether they have an R or a D by their name.
Romney is a liberal, he is who he is because of his mormonism not in spite of it.


53 posted on 04/27/2012 8:00:52 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LukeSW

Interesting article.
However, mormonism is not Christianity, no matter what Prager implies. Joseph Smith was very clear about that.


54 posted on 04/27/2012 8:04:04 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LukeSW; svcw

“You seem to be more than a little biased about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members, even if your uncle is a former Bishop. And you are wrong on the facts.”

Drive-by blank accusations are the height of intellectual dishonesty.

You’ve already received one request to name the statements uou believe to be inaccurate, let me add mine.

Whatever your claim, I speculate church documentation will most likely be the response ;^)

Just sayin’


57 posted on 04/27/2012 8:28:38 PM PDT by AnTiw1
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To: LukeSW

The Catholic church says that Mormonism is not a Christian religion, so do the Protestants, is Dennis Prager, the Jewish radio host ready to correct the Churches of the Christian faith?


70 posted on 04/28/2012 12:45:42 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: LukeSW

Nice rational reply .... Easy choice for me. I will vote for anybody but Obama and Romney being a Mormon is no obstacle. Do I vote for the American Mormon or the third world Muslim Marxist? Not a hard choice at all. Romney is not nearly as liberal as all the trash talk here tries to make him out to be.


77 posted on 04/28/2012 3:56:35 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: LukeSW
I am a life-long Mormon and given time and opportunity I would be happy to explain why. Trust me,

Oh, please! Mormons lie BIG TIME especially to a non mormon and then add 'trust me' - I'd rather run than walk away.

Mitt is NOT moving to any right - he doesn't know his right from the left. He is a LIBERAL and the LIAR doesn't belong on the GOP ticket. - And his record in MA is more than proof of that.

Your wishful thinking and the old ABO doesn't work on any INFORMED voter.

He has nothing to defeat Barry with - NOTHING and then his media support is gone by that time - the empty suit left out to dry while barry goes and makes mince maggot meat of him for his dogs.

I have my own wisdom, thank you. That's the problem - listen to this one and all his puppets chirp up! Voters being treated like they have no wisdom of their own - only PAID entertainers along with the PAID spineless in the GOP.

My wisdom comes from the GOP doing the same thing for at least 15 years.

They NEVER moved to the right as they are stuck on stupid - and this time - they are truly lost and went way to the left - wisdom says - don't listen to them - NOT ONE MORE TIME.

If so, I'd be stupid, also. I'm not checking in my brains for them - which would be needed to vote for their POS candidate.

81 posted on 04/28/2012 5:16:24 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: LukeSW

Waiting for an answer.
What did I say that was incorrect?


96 posted on 04/28/2012 7:45:17 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: LukeSW
You KNOW the truth? Have you read through the Journal of Discourses and agree with what your leadership have taught? Let me give you a couple of examples, quoted directly from your religion's source materials:

"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]

“...you have to learn to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, - namely, by going from one small degree to another...” [Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 Page 4, 1844. Joseph Smith]

"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified [Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82].

"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).

In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. [Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844]

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. [Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844]

"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons [Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346]

That last one should be enough for you to realize you not only don't know the truth about MormonISM, you don't want to know the truth either. Blasphemies such as quoted above are the essence of 'using the Lord's Name in vane'. LDSinc demote Jesus and God. THAT is the truth and we can prove it by merely quoting from the leadership of this antiChristian cult.

104 posted on 04/28/2012 9:14:12 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: LukeSW
You seem to be more than a little biased about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members, even if your uncle is a former Bishop.

Biases; when exposed; CAN be very embarrassing; right?!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

114 posted on 04/28/2012 10:41:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: LukeSW
There's no other choice for you then to support and Promote Romney. Further you are carrying the LDS/'Progressive' mantel in stating that ......"this is not a time to launch a religious war (offensive or defensive) or fan the flames of religious prejudice and misunderstanding. It is a time to recognize the core evil we are fighting and pull together. "

The 'Motive' of the LDS membership to unite behind Romney for this country is deceptive as it's not a call to unite for "Our" country, rather to get the country in line to further the political agenda of his Organization/false church...and the advancement of that.

....I see you've been groomed and ready to divert the attention away from any investigation into the LDS or Romney. ...and attempting to re-focus onto Obama....Nobody needs to be educated here about Obama...and your tactic is well understood and known...even if you yourself might be unaware it is the usual for LDS and their brainwashing indoctrination, now being used to gain traction for the coming election of "their man" Romney and their political agenda.

Romney is 'more than a concern' for the well informed. Your so called religion is a cover for a huge corporate entity with a political agenda of it's own. It uses and abuses the membership in order to retain/recruit membership which sustains the revenues flowing to it's leaderships coffers and control of to advance their political/false religious agenda. A serious look into their landholdings , investments and investors nationally and International is a good first place to start in understanding the broad swath of this entities involvement here and worldwide....often protected from being investigated, (as with Scientology and other false front religions), by claiming itself as a religion.

I would not expect a member such as yourself to understand the stronghold of your affiliation with LDS. Few if any recognize it's dangers going in...and certainly LDS presenting a serious of ritual and step achievements to the next phase of indoctrination, is hardly visible to those who are "progressing" thru it's earned states of "enlightenment"....or those who have achieved such. It is designed that way...to Deceive... 'by increments' as is the standard for all cults and false religions.

However to promote that 'this is not the time' is a lie,.... when in fact it is a critical time to expose all there is about Romney,.... and most important to investigate just what is the Mormon 'political agenda'... which Romney is required to uphold and has stated firmly that he will, 'above' that of his oath to this country.

For that reason alone it is vital we know exactly what this organization is about...his position in it...and who he is responsible to for carrying out their agenda on this nation.

150 posted on 04/28/2012 7:54:37 PM PDT by caww
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