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To: BroJoeK
1860 election, November 6, 1860 to fall of Fort Sumter, April 14, 1861. However, I could do it again, if data in the link above does not satisfy your curiousity.

As I have never had any curiosity concerning governmental actions after Lincoln's election, your efforts would be wasted.

The election itself was sufficient.

From your link:

Abraham Lincoln wins the 1860 presidential election on a platform that includes the prohibition of slavery in new states and territories

Please show me the Constitutional authority to prohibit slavery in new states and territories.

I've shown in a previous post where the House of Representatives themselves admitted they had no such authority to regulate slavery in the States. If the legislature didn’t possess the authority, neither could the executive.

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Also from your link-

November 7, 9 Charleston, South Carolina authorities arrest a Federal officer.

I've looked through the Compilation of the Official Documents of the Union and Confederate Armies , and I can find nothing in them to indicate an arrest of any kind.

****

Nov 5th - Col Gardner [Brevet Colonel, U. S. Army, Ft Moultrie] requests permission to have munitions moved to Ft Moultrie, SC.

Nov 8th - Craig [Col of Ordinance in War Dept, Washington, D.C] acknowledged request and says the issue has not and will not be made without further orders.

Nov 10 - Humphries [Military Storekeeper Ordnance, Commanding, Charleston Arsenal] mentioned ‘the shipment of them was interfered with by the owner of the wharf’.

Nov 13th – Craig [War Dept, Washington, D.C ]
Respectfully referred to the Adjutant-General for the information of the Secretary of War, with the remark that I am not aware by what authority Colonel Gardner undertook to give such an order.

****

If such an arrest WERE made, perhaps it was because the local officials knew the ‘federal officer’ was moving munitions without lawful authority.

I’ve also checked the footnotes on Wiki 216 Hansen, 1961, p. 38 and 217 Long, 1971, pp. 3-4.

A search for Hansen brings up only 2 instances during the proper era, and both concern battles fought in the middle of 1861.

Long gives almost 100, 000 returns, and NONE concern the proper era.

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That’s all the homework I’ll be doing to verify your facts.

I’ve given verifiable and easily accessible sources, usually in multiple form. Most are from the governmental archives themselves.

History books written 100 years after the war should certainly not be taken as bona fide historical fact, particularly since the ‘victors’ write the history books.

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The key point is this: in every seceding state there were large numbers of Federal properties seized by force, some even before a state officially seceded.

The key point is that you have yet to prove your assertion Federal properties were seized by force before a state officially seceded.

175 posted on 04/27/2012 9:38:34 AM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: MamaTexan

No state ever officially (legally) seceded.


176 posted on 04/27/2012 11:12:21 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: MamaTexan
MamaTexan from post #175, referring to secessionists many acts of insurrection, rebellion and war during the period from November 1860 through their declaration of war on the United States on May 6, 1861:

"As I have never had any curiosity concerning governmental actions after Lincoln's election, your efforts would be wasted.
The election itself was sufficient."

I take it then that you concede another of my key points: that South Carolina secessionists had no legitimate claim of Northern states' "breach of contract", and that their only real reason for secession was the 100% constitutional election of Abraham Lincoln's anti-slavery Republicans, in November 1860.

That means South Carolina declared secession strictly "at pleasure."
And that means it was not in accordance to our Founders' Original Intent, their declarations were unconstitutional, and the Federal Government was in no way obligated to recognize it.

241 posted on 05/02/2012 2:26:49 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: MamaTexan; donmeaker
MamaTexan from post #175: "Please show me the Constitutional authority to prohibit slavery in new states and territories.
I've shown in a previous post where the House of Representatives themselves admitted they had no such authority to regulate slavery in the States.
If the legislature didn’t possess the authority, neither could the executive."

It's odd that you don't seem to know about the 1789 Northwest Ordnance.

"On August 7, 1789, President George Washington signed the Northwest Ordinance of 1789 into law after the newly created U.S. Congress reaffirmed the Ordinance with slight modifications under the Constitution.

The Ordinance purported to be not merely legislation that could later be amended by Congress, but rather

    'the following articles shall be considered as Articles of compact between the original States and the people and states in the said territory, and forever remain unalterable, unless by common consent....' "

"...The prohibition of slavery in the territory had the practical effect of establishing the Ohio River as the boundary between free and slave territory in the region between the Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River.

"This division helped set the stage for national competition over admitting free and slave states, the basis of a critical question in American politics in the 19th century until the Civil War...."

I would call that a very strong expression of our Founders' Original Intent regarding the power of Congress to set limits on the expansion of slavery.

242 posted on 05/02/2012 2:39:01 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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