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To: BroJoeK
My argument in post #100 included 10 items, of which items 1 - 4 dealt with the constitutionality of secession. Items 5 - 10 covered the Confederacy's insurrections and formal declaration of war on the United States.

All of which were sourced and refuted in post#106.

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Item 9 simply pointed out that there was no physical war -- and no Confederate soldiers had been killed -- before the Confederacy decided to start, wage and formally declare war on the United States.

To which I agreed.

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The real truth of the matter is that Confederates wanted war, because they expected to win, and believed war was by far simpler than waging many years of compromising legal battles in the Supreme Court, in Congress or in elections necessary to achieve a constitutionally authorized secession by mutual consent.

The REAL truth is the South had two choices: leave or have their agrarian based economy obliterated....all because a 250 year old institution acknowledged by the Constitution had become unpopular.

Had the Union not decided free association could be kept by force of arms, they would have then have had the legitimate ability to change the Constitution to prohibit slavery, and could have rightfully protected every slave that managed to make it across the border....but I guess THAT would have been too easy.

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I've given sources to support the constitutionality of secession, yet you ignore them and rattle on as if your conjecture is fact.

And I'm STILL waiting for you to show me the Unions Constitutionally required Declaration of War.

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Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose—and you allow him to make war at pleasure.
Abraham Lincoln ~ Letter to William Herndon Feb. 15, 1848

119 posted on 04/20/2012 12:48:15 PM PDT by MamaTexan (I am a ~Person~ as created by the Law of Nature, not a 'person' as created by the laws of Man)
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To: MamaTexan
MamaTexan: "All of which were sourced and refuted in post#106."

None of which were refuted in your post #106.
But now, truly, this is it -- this is as much fun as I can stand in one day, got to leave something for another time.

So I promise, I'll return to your post #106, next chance I get.

;-)

121 posted on 04/20/2012 12:54:52 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: MamaTexan
The REAL truth is the South had two choices: leave or have their agrarian based economy obliterated....all because a 250 year old institution acknowledged by the Constitution had become unpopular.

That's simply inaccurate. There was a third choice - or what should have been the slaveocracy's first choice - maintain the status quo. Lincoln said that his wish was to keep the union intact - with or without slavery. He was willing to suspend his own views, and the views of the abolitionists if that was what it took to keep us together.

Maintaining the status quo would mean that they could continue to own other humans and use them as chattel with only a minor irritant coming from those pesky abolitionists. They could continue to hold a prominent position in Congress and likely regain the white house.

Life could have remained good, at least for the slavemasters, and at least for a while. But the fire-eaters knew that the world was evolving and that they would not be able to hold the water back for much longer.

The War of Southern Aggression was their last gasp effort to impose their worldview on the rest of the nation. Didn't work out too well, did it?

123 posted on 04/20/2012 1:34:24 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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