Posted on 04/09/2012 7:42:32 AM PDT by thackney
Range isn’t the problem with electric vehicles Tesla has one model that will go 250 miles on a charge and recharge in 30 minutes, and their second model the “S” will travel 300 miles between charges and has fast charge capability. The problem is the cost. To get a 300 mile range you currently have to pay about $70,000 dollars. Although, batteries are coming down in weight, increasing in energy density and lowering in cost every year. The latest technology, now in large scale testing will, if it holds up, more than double the energy density, while lowering the cost by 2/3. At that point a 300 mile range might come down to 25 -30 thousand and be a more practical option.
I thought Kernan was being sarcastic—at first. But I couldn’t detect the “tell” that he was being so.
He went on ad nauseum about it and sounded like a eco-lunatic.
Even here on FR we know to put a sarcasm tag after a post.
Joe never said he was speaking in jest.
Same problem ethanol has. But if you make a gallon of ethanol for half the price of gasoline (real price, not subsidized because I have to pay for the subsidy on April 15) I'll accept having to fill up a little more often. Same for natural gas.
However, don't rely on costs staying at their current low point. If more people start using natural gas then prices will go up. Also, we produce a lot of gas but it is difficult to export so there is no intercontinental market for it like there is in oil. Start building some ports and ships to handle it and our prices will come closer to the European and Asian prices.
I’d go for CNG. Electricity is a “derivative” form of power. You can’t mine or drill for electricity, it has to be made from another source (unless you’re willing to buy into solar and wind electic sources, which I’d support if they’d work efficiently). From all accounts CNG is plentiful in this country. I’m no scientist, so I don’t know what sort of “refining” (for lack of a better word) is required to make CNG usable, but I have to assume that it is easier than refining oil (I stand to be corrected.)
Of course infrastructure is an issue, but that is true of electric refueling also.
For the record, I drive a Prius (we own two of them) and they have been very good cars. But I’d switch to CNG if it were available and supported for fueling.
What's to stop you from taping off your home line after the meter? How will home use be separated from vehicle use, or will they tax ALL NG, home and vehicle?
No, he did not. I just got the idea that he went on and on, throwing up his hands, to show how he is resigned to the government's idiotic mandates. Doesn't really matter anyway.
You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to recognize the rocket potential of sitting on a tank that’s pressurized to over 3,000 PSI. Perhaps irrational fear on my part but I don’t particularly enjoy transporting my oxy/acetylene tanks when I need to.
I live in a Chicago suburb and the nearest place that I can refuel a CNG car is 25 miles away.
The NG compressor is prohibitively expensive... for now.
As for “what’s to stop you”, I imagine they will enact some fines & jail time for avoiding the fuel tax for your car by bypassing the vehicle usage meter.
I see this as parallel to off-road diesel usage.
Some big fines await if they catch you using the “red” diesel in your car.
Charge up an EV in a cold climate, let it sit for a couple of weeks, then drive it with all accessories and see what the range is. Even a gas guzzling SUV will go at least 300 miles. The core problem with EVs is that they are optimized for only a few performance parameters: conversion efficiency, and regenerative braking to name the biggest. Fossil fueled IC engines are a mix of many compromises that make them, over all, the best personal transportation solution.
If there’s as much natural gas in the US/Canada as I’ve read there is it seems that gas might be the better option.Perhaps even by a wide margin.But for the next 30+ years (at *least*) *oil* is gonna be absolutely *crucial* for the economies of the developed nations.
Yup, but I don't think they are going to be useing dye on NG. Like I said at the beginning, IMO the fly in the ointment is the pols figuring out HOW to tax it. My guess it will be a per mile tax on ALL vehicles...who knows...
IIRC, in the first segment Santelli said that the home compressor is safe and NOT cost prohibitive.
Range is also a problem with CNG (though not as bad).
You can get about 1/3 of the equivalence of gasoline in the same large space.
IE, if you have a 15 gallon tank for your gasoline,
and replace it in the same space with CNG tanks,
you have the equivalent range/energy of 5 gals of gasoline.
I live fairly close to Boston and,last time I checked (a year or so ago),there's precisely *one* CNG station that's open to the public in the ENTIRE People's Republic of Massachusetts.And it happens to be in Greater Boston.
You could retrofit an over the road truck (or other diesel vehicle) with a system that fumigates the intake air on the diesel engine with CNG. You can replace as much as 60-70% of the diesel fuel demand with CNG. If you run out of CNG, the truck reverts back to 100% diesel. The two biggest expenses to the conversion are the Kevlar tank on the truck to store the CNG and the compressor to fill it up.
No thanks. I’ll walk.
Respectfully, that ain't the only problem.
I'd like to see how Tesla gets 250 miles worth of electricity down to a battery in 30 minutes. Must be running on 480V? (which still would be a stretch) Or, the PR flacks at Tesla are stretching the truth a bit? Either way, the average household isn't equipped with 480, so the thought of just going home and plugging in your car after work, isn't much of an option. I'd also like to see how much faster the battery breaks down while using the "fast charge" option.
Then, I'd like to see how an already overtaxed, under-developed, and overregulated electrical infrastructure, currently dominated by NIMBY environmental activists, would handle millions of cars all running a fast recharge near-simultaneously.
If engineers ever solve these two issues, then I'll be listening. Until then, electric cars are destined for nothing more than filling a niche.
Plug-in electrics raise the same questions. Thus far, the solution seems to be a separate annual flat tax on such vehicles.
Volt battery @ 435lbs ='s 1 gallon of gasoline @6.8 lbs...
We need a 64x increase in battery techology to get the same power density, I am not holding my breath for all those breakthroughs...
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