Zimmerman's lawyer: 'Stand your ground' doesn't apply in Trayvon Martin case

CNN ^ | March 24, 2012 | CNN Wire Staff

[Qbert]

Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- A lawyer for the man at the center of the Trayvon Martin death investigation said Florida's "stand your ground" law doesn't apply to the shooting that killed the unarmed teen.

"In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house," said Craig Sonner, attorney for George Zimmerman.

"This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"

[Snip]

The 2005 law allows people to use deadly force anywhere they have a right to be if they have reasonable fear an assailant could seriously harm them or someone else.

It also eliminated a long-standing "duty to retreat" in the face of imminent harm, asserting that would-be crime victims have the right to "stand their ground" and "meet force with force" when attacked.

[Snip]

The Sanford Police Department said officers were prohibited from arresting Zimmerman the night of the shooting because physical evidence and testimony supported his claim that he acted in self-defense. The police department gave the explanation to City Manager Norton Bonaparte, who included it in a letter to the community about the case, posted on the city's website.

Authorities say they still have no information to contradict Zimmerman's story...

[Snip]

Heated debate has erupted over whether Zimmerman used a racial slur during the 911 call, which was released this week.

A top CNN audio engineer enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus.

[gunsequalfreedom]

Interesting snipits from the article...

The Sanford Police Department said officers were prohibited from arresting Zimmerman the night of the shooting because physical evidence and testimony supported his claim that he acted in self-defense. The police department gave the explanation to City Manager Norton Bonaparte, who included it in a letter to the community about the case, posted on the city’s website.

“Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon,” the police said in the letter posted by Bonaparte.

Sonner says his client was injured that night with a broken nose and a serious cut on the back of his head. He said the injuries “were from Trayvon Martin, I assume.”

[Qbert]

Yep. And that seems to be supported by what a witness to the attack has claimed:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2863167/posts

[PoloSec]

To those who jumped on this bandwagon, the truth will not matter, there mind is made up this was racism, by Zimmerman, the police and witnesses, no amount of truth will sway them.

[TexasSecede79366]

"Those pesky facts keep getting in the way.

From the link:
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

and:
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.

The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.

Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience, understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community

We trust that this information is helpful to you.

Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM City Manager March 23, 2012

[TexasRedeye]

...primarily when you're in your house...

Errr, I don't know Florida law but here in Texas, SYG applies wherever you are.

[svcw]

This is gotten so out of whack, because of the race whores. Zimmerman is hispanic, when is that group going to show up and demand justice for Zimmerman.
There are black neighbors coming to his defense, one has to wonder why they are being ignored.

[AZLiberty]

CNN's actually reporting the facts? Now that's news.

MSNBC, on the other hand, is doing all it can to stir up racial hatred.

[Eldon Tyrell]

They were irrational before the data came out - they aren’t going to become rational now.

It is a disgrace how the media plays on the mental weakness of these people.

[Reese Hamm]

“Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon,”

Here's the problem I have with that: If you check the timing on the call Zimmerman placed to Sanford dispatch, the time lapsed from when you hear him open his vehicle door (he still has to exit the vehicle) until he acknowledges the dispatcher's "we don't need you to do that" is only 18 seconds.

A full minute and a half after that - and well after the time he "lost sight of Trayvon" - he's still on the phone with dispatch and he still hasn't made it back to his truck. He also changes his mind about meeting the police at the mailboxes and asks the dispatcher if they can call him and he'll tell them where to find him.

While that isn't concrete proof of any wrongdoing, it does leave the door open to the possibility that he was determined to find this "asshole" "on drugs or something" who wouldn't "get away" this time. Now considering that he likely saw himself as the good guy out to thwart the evildoer, is it not possible that he would aggressively confront Trayvon when/if he found him? And when confronted aggressively by a stranger who he knew had been watching/following him for several minutes, is it possible that Trayvon feared for his safety and "stood his ground?"

That possibility is enough for me to agree that all the information should have been brought before a grand jury to review long before it became the media circus it is now.

19:11:12	Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department, line is being recorded. This is Sean.
19:11:16	Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
19:11:29	Zimmerman: This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
19:11:37	Dispatcher: Okay, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
19:11:39	Zimmerman: He looks black.
19:11:41	Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
19:11:43	Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes.
19:11:52	Zimmerman: He's here now and he’s just staring…
19:11:55	Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area…
19:11:55	Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
19:11:57	Dispatcher: Ah, ‘kay…
19:11:58	Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
19:12:00	Dispatcher: Okay—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
19:12:03	Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…
19:12:05	Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the clubhouse right now?
19:12:09	Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
19:12:11	Dispatcher: Okay.
19:12:15	Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
19:12:20	Zimmerman: And he's a black male.
19:12:21	Dispatcher: Okay. How old would you say he looks?
19:12:23	Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt..
19:12:24	Zimmerman: ..late teens.
19:12:25	Dispatcher: Late teens, okay.
19:12:26	Zimmerman: Mmhuh.
19:12:29	Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him.
19:12:33	Zimmerman: Ayup, he's coming to check me out.
19:12:36	Zimmerman: He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
19:12:39	Dispatcher: Okay, just let me know if he does anything okay…
19:12:40	Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
19:12:41	Dispatcher: Yeah, we've got ‘em on the way - just let me know if this guy does anything else.
19:12:46	Zimmerman: Okay.
19:12:49	Zimmerman: Ugh - these assholes, they always get away.
19:12:55	Zimmerman: Yep.
19:12:57	Zimmerman: When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in…and make a left.
19:13:03	Zimmerman: Actually. You would go past the clubhouse.
19:13:06	Dispatcher: Ah. You say it's on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
19:13:10	Zimmerman: Naaah…you go in straight through the entrance…and then you make a left…uh…yea, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left-
19:13:18	Zimmerman: - ah shit.
19:13:19	Zimmerman: He's running.
19:13:20	Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
19:13:22	[sound of vehicle door opening]
19:13:23	Zimmerman: Down towards the, uh, other entrance to the neighborhood.
19:13:26	Dispatcher: Okay, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
19:13:28	Zimmerman: The back entrance…
19:13:32	Zimmerman: Fucking [unintelligible]
19:13:34	Dispatcher: Are you following him?
19:13:36	Zimmerman: Yeah
19:13:37	Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
19:13:40	Zimmerman: Ok
	[muffled noises – wind? heavy breathing?]
19:13:46	Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
19:13:48	Zimmerman: George
19:13:49	Zimmerman: He ran.  [muffled – breathless?]
19:13:52	Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
19:13:55	Zimmerman: [two slapping/tapping noises] Zimmerman
19:13:56	Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?
19:13:57	[more slapping/flapping noises]
19:13:59	Zimmerman: 407-***-****[redacted]
19:14:04	Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
19:14:08	Zimmerman: Yeah.
19:14:09	Dispatcher: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
19:14:12	Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the uh, gate -- tell them to go straight past the club house, [more slapping/flapping noises] and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, they’ll see my truck...[unintelligible]
19:14:31	Dispatcher: Okay. What address are you parked in front of?
19:14:33	Zimmerman: Um. I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
19:14:38	Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
19:14:39	Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah…I live...[unintelligible]
19:14:40	Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
19:14:44	Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950 [more slapping/flapping noises]
19:14:47	Zimmerman:  Aw crap. I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is.
19:14:50	Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
19:14:54	Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine. [more faint slapping/flapping noises]
19:14:58	Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you [unintelligible] there okay?
19:14:59	Zimmerman: Actually could you…could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
19:15:03	Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
19:15:05	Zimmerman: You need my number or you got it?
19:15:06	Dispatcher: Yeah I got it. 407-***-**** [redacted]?
19:15:07	Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
19:15:11	Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area.
19:15:14	Zimmerman: Thanks.
19:15:15	Dispatcher: You’re welcome.

[snowstorm12]

Zimmerman used excessive force. It was a mutual fist fight and he only has his nose bleeding. THe same you would see outside any bar. Trayvon had no weapon, he was just throwing punches.

maybe if zimmerman was a woman, he would have more legs to stand on. she could say she thought it was a sexual attack.

[07Jack]

“Zimmerman used excessive force. It was a mutual fist fight and he only has his nose bleeding. THe same you would see outside any bar. Trayvon had no weapon, he was just throwing punches.”

That was my first gut instinct also. But the more I hear, the more I'm thinking that Zimmerman probably did ultimately act in self defense. None of us know all of the facts the police considered in deciding not to press charges. I have to wonder if there may have even been a struggle for control of the weapon. Whatever the case, Zimmerman put himself in a terrible position which led to this outcome.

[DallasSun]

We knew this. But thank you for posting it in case someone did not.

[little jeremiah]

Zimmerman’s nose was broken and he had lacerations on the back of his head that required stitches. Direct quotes from his lawyer on one of these threads. 911 call has screaming for help for 45 seconds, Trayvon’s father said the screaming was not his son’s voice.

[CelesteChristi]

Words matter. Definitions matter. Understanding the applicable law matters - especially if you're an attorney. Sounds like Zimmerman needs a new lawyer.

In Florida the Castle Law applies to defending your home. The Stand Your Ground Law applies everywhere else - even your front yard. If you're outside your house Stand Your Ground is the applicable law.

[little jeremiah]

How about if you’re lying on your back getting beat up and can’t retreat? Does it apply then?

[Georgia Girl 2]

Yes same in GA. Castle law is inside your home and stand your ground is out in your driveway. Anywhere else its just plain old self defense. Thats why you CC in the first place.

[Qbert]

"In Florida the Castle Law applies to defending your home. The Stand Your Ground Law applies everywhere else - even your front yard. If you're outside your house Stand Your Ground is the applicable law."

What is your support for this?

[Oztrich Boy]

Perhaps he’s not a very good lawyer.

[Oztrich Boy]

Zimmerman’s nose was broken and he had lacerations on the back of his head that required stitches.

I'd want to see a medical report confirming that - not just his lawyer's statement.