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To: impimp
> This article somewhat addresses what I am saying about wind posing a problem with frequency control.

Very interesting post, that. And I do see what you've been driving at better now.

I will guess -- and please correct me if this is inaccurate -- that ERCOT's situation is that their generators (or most of them) are synchronous, that is, their generating rotors (hydro, steam, etc.) are locked to the 60Hz power they produce, and therefore varying load causes them to speed up or slow down, because their speed is regulated dynamically and affected by their load. The same effect that causes a fixed-throttle automobile to slow down going uphill and speed up downhill.

Obviously, there are integral/differential control systems in place to regulate the speed of the generators in the face of changing loads. But a bunch of wind machines, with varying power output based on changing wind speed, are going to play hell with the regulation controls so carefully put in place over the past decades. They add a noise factor into the control system equations.

I'm trying to understand, so please help me here. Does that sound about right?

> My knowledge, however, doesn’t come from articles. It comes from me being an expert.

That's why I'm asking. I have enough background and experience in electrical engineering to know that I'm NOT an expert in power production and transmission, but I'm always eager to learn. Thank you for your time to comment.

38 posted on 03/08/2012 5:42:48 PM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

It all sounds right what you say except the synchronous part. I think all generation on the grid is synchronous, or synced, to the grid. But we may be just having terminology issues.

The problem is that nat gas, coal, and hydro, and many peaker turbines (essentially jet engines) have automatic generation control (AGC). Plants with AGC will ramp down quickly when the frequency is high and ramp up when it is low. It is a feedback loop that is required to keep the grid stable. Nuclear, wind, and some hydro and some peakers do not have AGC. If the grid does not have a sufficient number of Megawatts of up/down range on AGC then there will be a much greater chance of the grid losing stability after a first contingency (i.e. fancy talk for a large generator or trans line quickly and unexpectedly going out of service).

So then the economics comes into play - not all MWs generated are created equal. Due to wind not only not having AGC, but actually going in the OPPOSITE direction when there is a contingency (plant trip), it is the worst type of generation. It is fine in small amounts but there are diminishing returns.

Read about Germany’s grid if you want to know what happens when their is too much wind and solar.


39 posted on 03/09/2012 5:13:11 AM PST by impimp
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