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To: HMS Surprise
HMS Surprise: "This national identity made us ripe for a national statism, which occurred as you said, 50 years later....
The Civil War prepared America for the yoke of national statism."

First of all, you need to remember that no Confederate soldier -- zero, zip, nada -- was killed directly by Union forces until after the Confederacy formally declared war on the United States, on May 6, 1861.
Until that declaration of war there was still the possibility of a negotiated settlement.
After the declaration, there could be only Unconditional Surrender.

Second, note rockrr's response in post #127.
You could just as easily blame George Washington as Abraham Lincoln, but blaming either is ridiculous.

The real blame belongs to the Progressives (Marxists) beginning about 100 years ago, and those most definitely include Southern Democrat Progressives like President Woodrow Wilson, plus all those long-serving Southern Democrat Congressmen & Senators who were only too happy to raise up our taxes and send money back home from the Federal feeding trough.

So don't blame Lincoln, blame your own ancestors as much as anyone.

164 posted on 02/20/2012 7:10:37 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

Careful, if you say anything that anyone might interpret as critical of or to anyone or anything that lies below the Mason-Dixon line Funky will lump you into his Kitchen-Katchall of “south-haters”.

(yes, it is that silly!) ;-)


166 posted on 02/20/2012 7:19:04 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: BroJoeK
The real blame belongs to the Progressives (Marxists) beginning about 100 years ago, and those most definitely include Southern Democrat Progressives like President Woodrow Wilson, plus all those long-serving Southern Democrat Congressmen & Senators who were only too happy to raise up our taxes and send money back home from the Federal feeding trough.

Lincoln showed how to wield Federal Power in ways nobody dreamed of prior to the "late unpleasantness" and laid the foundation for the 19th century Progressives et. al.

168 posted on 02/20/2012 7:22:25 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BroJoeK

The pertinent question, which is often conveniently ignored: Were there a “long train of abuses” that justified the South’s attempt to seperate itself from the North, or were the causes “light and transient,” and not enough for the North to “allow” the South to be a new neighbor? Wars can start and end after a skirmish, or continue until every structure requires new plumbing. The actual War, gave ample opportunity for Lincoln to negotiate peace. Anti-revolutionaries here like to pretend that Americans circa 1863 were unable to entertain notions that would bring about peace. Nonsense, Lincoln could have, he COULD HAVE, publically acknowledged the transgressions of both sides, and made an earnest attempt to sue for peace. You are wrong that all wars end with unconditional surrender by the way; most end with a negotiated settlement. Regardless of fault however, my point that post-Civil War America was ripe for a new national statism is unassailable.


170 posted on 02/20/2012 7:30:08 AM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can still go to hell.)
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