Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

Camp Pendleton Patch ^ | February 10, 2012 | Roy Rivenburg

[brityank]

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

15-year veteran of Sheriff's Department says Sgt. Manny Loggins was about to drive away, so he opened fire to prevent a perceived danger to Loggins' daughters. One other deputy was nearby at the time.

The deputy who shot and killed an unarmed Marine sergeant after a predawn traffic stop said the Marine was acting so "irrationally" that it seemed dangerous to let him drive away with his two daughters, an official said Friday.

So when the Marine -- later identified as Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. of Camp Pendleton -- climbed back into his GMC Yukon and turned the ignition, the deputy opened fire, according to Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Amormino stressed that he was merely relaying statements made by the deputy to investigators and "not defending" what happened.

"This was a very tragic event, we all feel bad for the family," Amormino said.

The deputy, a 15-year veteran, told investigators he was parked at San Clemente High School writing reports when he spotted Loggins driving "at a high rate of speed" before turning into the lot and crashing into a gate near the football field.

The deputy pulled up behind Loggins and radioed for backup. It was about 4:40 a.m. Tuesday.

Loggins, 31, stepped out of the Yukon and walked off into the darkness toward the football field, ignoring a series of commands made by the deputy. His two daughters, ages 9 and 14, remained in the vehicle.

Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

"About five minutes later, Loggins walked back toward the Yukon," Amormino said.

The deputy issued "a new set of commands" which Loggins again didn't follow, Amormino said.

"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children," Amormino said. "In the deputy's mind, it was unsafe for [Loggins] to drive away with the girls."

Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviewed," he noted.

Amormino said this account came from the deputy who fired the shots. Another deputy was nearby, but "I don't know what he saw," Amormino said.

Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

"Whatever the truth is will come out," Amormino said, noting that "a complete and thorough investigation" would be conducted by the Orange County District Attorney's office, which investigates all officer-involved shootings.

Results of the autopsy on Loggins probably won't be made public for a few weeks, after toxicology tests are finished and the sheriff reviews the findings, he said.

Loggins' friends and colleagues have questioned official accounts of what happened, describing the Illinois native as a kind and faith-filled Christian family man who would never disobey authorities or jeopardize the safety of his daughters.

[absalom01]

privy to every nuance of every LEO shooting out there...

So I have learned over the years. It's too bad. FR is a unique forum for teasing facts out of the media murk, but it's impossible on any LE use of force thread. Their minds have been made up, any contradictory evidence is either ignored or explained away as evidence of a conspiracy. Oh well. It is what it is.

[Czar]

I’ll wait for further information — but, so far, this shooting smells.

[Tramonto]

Deputy deserved a medal.

You must be a cop.

[dragnet2]

Finally, the right question. Why indeed? Was a Taser avaliable? Where was the deputy standing relative to the driver? At what point was he aware that the children were in the car? There’s too much fog, too little facts available bla bla bla..

There is no fog here. This is not a complex incident.

Why not just ask the deputy involved or the teenagers in the vehicle?

Why is there suddenly a different version of events? OCSD originally stated the deputy feared for his life. Days later, the deputy now feared of the kids in the vehicle?

Tell me, after about a week, how is it possible the OCSD spokesperson has no idea if the passengers versions of events is or is not consistent with the deputy's version?

How is that possible?

[Jack Hydrazine]

I have a feeling this cop is gonna walk.

[sport]

If it is on film anywhere, unless it clears the deputy, it [the tape]will disappear.

[Krankor]

According to the local ABC news outlet, the entire incident was caught on the dash board camera. Since it hasn’t been released or even mentioned by the police spokesman, I’m guessing it’s ambiguous at best. Because of the secrecy and changing stories by the cops, I’m guessing it’s a classic case of DWB- driving while black. I don’t believe the marine was speeding. I don’t believe he crashed through the gate either. I’m guessing the marine was doing what he did many times before- going to the high school track early in the morning to walk with his kids. The cop spotted him, hassled him (at least in the mind of the marine) and, when the marine objected to the treatment and tried to drive away- the cop shot him. Of course, I could be completely wrong, but I love to play Sherlock Holmes.

[sport]

Recall when the cops shot the West Point graduate at Cosco in Nevada? That also was supposed to have been on film. The film has yet to appear.

[dragnet2]

Speculation?

The Marine pulled into the school, possibly accidentally hit a gate, damages his nice clean looking SUV, the deputy pulls in behind him, he's already pissed his vehicle was slightly damaged, walks off, ignored the deputy's command, walked back, got in his vehicle, ignoring the deputy due to being pissed off, and the deputy opens fire thought the driver side window.

Pure 100% speculation on my part.

[dragnet2]

ER...and the deputy opens fire though the driver side window.

[21twelve]

Speaking of PURE speculation - I wonder what he was doing at 4:30 in the morning at the school with his kids. Perhaps he has an older daughter, who he finds out is at a kegger party in the woods by the school, mom is at work and he doesn’t want to leave the other kids at home alone, and leaves to go find the daughter. As I said - PURE conjecture, but would make a good movie script.

Prayers for the girls and this man’s family.

[21twelve]

Oops - I formed my speculation earlier in the day, and didn’t read through the forthcoming posts that said the guy walked there in the mornings.

[Krankor]

I think your speculation is pretty close to mine. I don’t think the marine was speeding. I think he was just going to the track with his two kids like he’d done before. A cop who was “writing reports” at 4:30 in the morning on the high school lot, spotted a suspicious black man driving onto the property. The marine maybe hit the gate and was inspecting the damage when the cop drives up and pulls his gun. The marine takes umbrage at being hassled in front of his two kids- perhaps even says a few nasty comments and then decides to get in his car and drive away- and the cop just shoots him in a split second of anger, indignation, panic or whatever. The cop then makes up the whole speeding, leaving the scene of an accident and endangerment bs.

[dragnet2]

This seems rather disturbing at this point due to what has already been said here and elsewhere.

To be honest, I was hoping or assuming it would be revealed the Marine would have been armed, pulling a weapon, knife whatever etc, etc, and had a real history of child abuse and or he was seen barking at the moon, etc,...Nothing.

They should be forthright here, without question.

Did the deputy unintentionally pull the trigger when possibly attempting to keep the suspect from driving off? Could happen....If that was the case...It's better to be honest and upfront.

[absalom01]

How many versions from OCSD are you willing to accept?

This implies that OCSD has given its official version of events. They have not. The press office, we are told, said immediately after the shooting that the deputy "fearing for his safety/life/something" fired. They then corrected that and said "fearing for the safety of the children". I don't know that these are necesarily contradictory, or if the media accurately reported them, or what relationship they bear to what the deputy told his field sergeant, who presumably relayed the intel up the chain of command.

Perhaps there's a grand conspiracy within the OCSD to cover this up Seems more likely to me that imperfect information was initially released, and that it was quickly corrected.

Deciding that the OCSD has "clearly changed its version" is not an accurate or fair characterization of what the department has stated to the public to date.

>Nice try, but I've likely forgotten more about law enforcement procedures/investigations/public relations and tactics than you ever knew.

Bet you're wrong!

One not be a senior investigator to understand, based on that OCSD has reported and or not reported, that this shoot reeks bad.

Clearly, we won't agree on this topic. That statement tells me that no matter what facts, information and evidence becomes available, you've made up your mind. Which, I submit, proves my point for me.

[absalom01]

How is that possible?

Because, in Orange County, the investigation is being handled by the DA's office, not the Sheriff's department. The DA hasn't told the Sheriff's spokesperson because it's a criminal investigation.

There's an IA investigation underway as well.

Tell me, after about a week...

What's the urgency?

[dragnet2]

I think it needs to be said, we are all human and make mistakes.

If a mistake is made, a trigger pulled accidentally due to a perceived deep concern, fright etc, ..Well s*** happens... **** happens a lot. Could happen? Yep.. and does happen.

If this is the situation here, which I do not profess to know, they should be upfront.

Simply be honest.

It's much harder to punish someone being honest and human. Speaking the truth sometimes works.

Is there anyone here who believes an accidental trigger pull is not possible during a tense situation?

[Krankor]

I think you might be right. It could have been an accidental trigger pull. Or a cop, in the heat of the moment without thinking, shooting a fleeing suspect. But a human being died that night. Even worse, two young girls saw their father killed. I can’t even imagine how that would affect me. But the fact the cop claims he was sitting in that parking lot “writing reports” is bs. I believe he was sleeping or reading a book or on his cell phone. I doubt that had anything to do with what happened, but it showed his lack of dedication or respect for his job. Even more appalling is the coverup- by the cop and the police force. They’re going to destroy this man’s reputation all in the name of covering their asses. Of course, the cop could be completely innocent. But the way they’re handling the investigation certainly smells bad.

[AnTiw1]

It seems that America is a cellblock, because we're all criminals and dogs now. I don't know how many articles I've read at FR of cops shooting dogs using no more thought process than this sick piece of crap who shot this Marine in front of his children...we're just all the same to them. Our government says outright that we are the enemy, that conservatives are terrorists, they flat out declare war on those of us who smoke the kind herb...and every police officer is no longer protecting and serving civilians, to LE we're all criminals, they're just thinning the herd.

BTW...if it's righteous to draw down on a potential threat to children, then in this case, it's the Marine who should have been holding a gun on the cop, then, shouldn't it.

I've been thinking of going expatriate for a while...Ben Franklin said "where Liberty is, there is my country", or something like that. I don't think I recognize this country any more.

[goat granny]

Irrational is a subjective opinion, and I am sure those children will keep for their lives the picture of this man being blown away by someone they didn’t even know...it smells fishy. I wonder if he got out of the car to take a pee.....