Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

Camp Pendleton Patch ^ | February 10, 2012 | Roy Rivenburg

[brityank]

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car

15-year veteran of Sheriff's Department says Sgt. Manny Loggins was about to drive away, so he opened fire to prevent a perceived danger to Loggins' daughters. One other deputy was nearby at the time.

The deputy who shot and killed an unarmed Marine sergeant after a predawn traffic stop said the Marine was acting so "irrationally" that it seemed dangerous to let him drive away with his two daughters, an official said Friday.

So when the Marine -- later identified as Sgt. Manny Loggins Jr. of Camp Pendleton -- climbed back into his GMC Yukon and turned the ignition, the deputy opened fire, according to Jim Amormino, a spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff's Department.

Amormino stressed that he was merely relaying statements made by the deputy to investigators and "not defending" what happened.

"This was a very tragic event, we all feel bad for the family," Amormino said.

The deputy, a 15-year veteran, told investigators he was parked at San Clemente High School writing reports when he spotted Loggins driving "at a high rate of speed" before turning into the lot and crashing into a gate near the football field.

The deputy pulled up behind Loggins and radioed for backup. It was about 4:40 a.m. Tuesday.

Loggins, 31, stepped out of the Yukon and walked off into the darkness toward the football field, ignoring a series of commands made by the deputy. His two daughters, ages 9 and 14, remained in the vehicle.

Other deputies soon arrived and formed a perimeter around the back end of the football field in case Loggins was trying to flee, Amormino said. Because it was dark, nobody could see where Loggins was.

"About five minutes later, Loggins walked back toward the Yukon," Amormino said.

The deputy issued "a new set of commands" which Loggins again didn't follow, Amormino said.

"Due to Loggins' failure to follow the commands and his irrational behavior, including statements he made, the deputy had a deep concern for the safety of the children," Amormino said. "In the deputy's mind, it was unsafe for [Loggins] to drive away with the girls."

Amormino said he couldn't disclose what the alleged "irrational" behaviors or statements entailed, but said Loggins didn't appear to be intoxicated.

When Loggins got back into the Yukon and either started the engine or began trying to drive away, the deputy opened fire, shooting Loggins through the driver side window, which shattered. (The girls were in the back seat and not injured.)

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

"The real threat was for the lives of the children," Amormino said Friday. In a case like this, "some information becomes immediately available and some takes longer to get because witnesses have to be interviewed," he noted.

Amormino said this account came from the deputy who fired the shots. Another deputy was nearby, but "I don't know what he saw," Amormino said.

Loggins' daughters were also interviewed by investigators, but Amormino said he didn't know what they said or if their story lined up with the deputy's.

"Whatever the truth is will come out," Amormino said, noting that "a complete and thorough investigation" would be conducted by the Orange County District Attorney's office, which investigates all officer-involved shootings.

Results of the autopsy on Loggins probably won't be made public for a few weeks, after toxicology tests are finished and the sheriff reviews the findings, he said.

Loggins' friends and colleagues have questioned official accounts of what happened, describing the Illinois native as a kind and faith-filled Christian family man who would never disobey authorities or jeopardize the safety of his daughters.

[Frank_2001]

“Since the marine was apparently unarmed, did the officer(s) try to restrain him”

Trying to restrain a Marine is a quick way to get your arm snapped;)

[11Bush]

These are the same cops that we expect to stand with the citizens when the gun confiscations begin?

Yeah, right! They will fear for their safety and gun us down in big bleeding numbers.

[HMS Surprise]

Cops shoot first now, and that is just wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t care what the training manual says, cops should take necessary risks to protect life. They require it of citizens, it should be demanded of authorities. Inappropriate use of force is borderline murder, and case after case proves that the policing paradigm is wrongheaded and evil.

[smokingfrog]

A former commanding officer said Loggins routinely went to the school during the early morning with his daughters to walk the track and read the Bible.

So was the gate usually open, and this time it wasn't?
He's not paying attention and drives into the gate?

I'm sure if the marine had made any threatening statements to the cops or toward his girls, we'd know about it.

[Krankor]

Here's something very odd. According to this news report, the marine walked regularly early in the morning with his kids at this high school track. Is it possible the cop was waiting for him?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/02/10/state/n162739S25.DTL

[hal ogen]

Every profession has a distribution of competence. There are some bad, most average and some good. It sounds like this cop was on the bad end (extremely bad end) of the spectrum. Murdering a Marine in front of his kids because he was afraid for the kids???? What kind of total BS is that?! RIP Marine.

[Krankor]

Ha! While you were posting, I was writing the same thing. Now I’m really suspicious. Did someone complain about the black man using the track early in the morning? Was he told he couldn’t be there? Did the cop have an earlier run in with the marine? Was the cop waiting for him? I always thought the “writing reports” story was a bunch of bs.

[starlifter]

I call BS.

The cop shot the guy in front of his kids. He made a very bad decision. He should pay dearly for it.

[Hot Tabasco]

I see “irrational” drivers every day. I did not know it was OK to just kill them.

I read incomplete and often times erroneous news reports on LEO shootings posted on this site so I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out........

I would hope that fellow FReepers would follow the same logic but that's not likely to happen. There's too many keyboard commandos wanting to claim the "see I told you so" award.

[absalom01]

Quite a few guys get out of the Corps, and go into law enforcement, even moreso in the OC. The odds are pretty good, in fact, that the deputy himself is a Marine. Assemble 20 OCSD deps, and you’re sure to have at least 8 Marines in the bunch.

[dragnet2]

I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out, when there are multiple investigators involved, and in fact witnesses present who were in the vehicle?

In addition, why has OCSD changed it's version of the "Facts" several times?

Is it a secret to report to the public the Marine was completely unarmed, no weapon, or that he was indeed armed with a weapon?

Why put such a tight lid on this? Why has the LE version of events changed?

[elvis-lives]

Sorry. A nutjob had already crashed his vehicle into a gate, refused an order to stop. Returned to the vehicle and with two female minors in the back seat attempted to flee. The deputy did not know if the girls were kidnapped sex slaves, illeghal aliens or escaped mental patients. Deputy deserved a medal.

[Hot Tabasco]

That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out

Good question, please refer to my prior statement.........

I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

[dragnet2]

That begs the question, why would it take so long for the facts to come out, when there are multiple investigators involved, and in fact witnesses present who were in the vehicle?

In addition, why has OCSD changed it's version of the "Facts" several times?

Is it a secret to report to the public the Marine was completely unarmed, no weapon, or that he was indeed armed with a weapon?

Why put such a tight lid on this? Why has the LE version of events changed?

Good question, please refer to my prior statement......... I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

Well wait a minute here, they already disseminated their facts, yet their version of the facts changed. Why are would it take so long?

This should not be a complex investigation.

All the players are accounted for, and in fact there are witnesses. What's the hold up?

Are you going to believe OCSD's version after their version has already changed?

[absalom01]

Not to butt in, but it might be pertinent to point out that there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now regarding the deputy’s use of force and conduct, statements, actions and failures to act before and after the shooting occurred. So, it is indeed going to take some time for the facts to come out, but anyone who thinks that every split-second decision of the entire encounter won’t be dissected is hopelessly paranoid.

Second, as with any police use of force story on FR, the normal skepticism that meets any other story reported in the MSM evaporates. In my life, I’ve had occasion to read media accounts of events, statements, or situations to which I had been a witness. I’ve never seen a story that doesn’t contain numerous factual errors: an event that is reported to have happened on one street occurred a few blocks away, the time was wrong, a statement reported as a quote exactly contradicts what was actually said to the reporter. etc etc etc.

The thing is, if one is inclined to believe that the cops are all a bunch of thugs, you can read that into this story. If you’re inclined the other direction, there are pieces of the puzzle that support that reading as well.

But, by the time the facts are presented, the rabid Libertarian cop haters will have moved on to the next fresh story, and will concoct a witch’s brew of paranoid ramblings that will cite this caper as an example of “out of control police”, regardless of what the facts turn out to be. Because, for them, the point is not the truth, but justification of a world view that rejects all authority other than their own.

[dragnet2]

Deputy deserved a medal.

The deputy shot the unarmed Marine to death because the deputy thought the Marine was a mental patient trying to run from the cop with his kidnapped sex slaves?

I see you have all this figured out.

Thanks for your keen insight!

Good grief!

[Hot Tabasco]

Are you going to believe OCSD's version after their version has already changed?

Good question there Sgt. Friday but you're becoming a little tedious now, please refer to my prior statement.........

I'm going to reserve judgment until ALL THE FACTS come out.

[Hot Tabasco]

Not to butt in, but it might be pertinent to point out that there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now

Forget the facts, there are onsite keyboard commandos who are privy to every nuance of every LEO shooting out there, so it's best not to even attempt to dispute their indisputable claims......

[absalom01]

“...and so he shot their dad in the same vehicle the children were in. I’m sure those children really appreciate this deputy’s concern. Why didn’t the deputy prevent this guy from walking (not running) back to his car in the first place?”

Finally, the right question. Why indeed? Was a Taser avaliable? Where was the deputy standing relative to the driver? At what point was he aware that the children were in the car?

There’s too much fog, too little facts available in the media to answer any of those questions. This could either be a justified, though tragic use of force, or criminal incompetence. Can’t tell from the information present.

But you’re asking the right question.

[dragnet2]

there is an on-going criminal investigation being conducted right now regarding the deputy’s use of force and conduct, statements, actions and failures to act before and after the shooting occurred.

How many versions from OCSD are you willing to accept?

Which one will you determine to be true? Which begs the question:

Why would you believe a government entity which has clearly already changed it's version of events?.

But, by the time the facts are presented, the rabid Libertarian cop haters will have moved on to the next fresh story, and will concoct a witch’s brew of paranoid ramblings

Nice try, but I've likely forgotten more about law enforcement procedures/investigations/public relations and tactics than you ever knew.

One not be a senior investigator to understand, based on that OCSD has reported and or not reported, that this shoot reeks bad.