JSF 'no match' for latest Russian fighters or Chinese radar

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/jsf-no-match-for-latest-russian-fighters-or-chinese-radar/story-e6frg8yo-1226265180090 ^

[kronos77]

THE stealth qualities of the futuristic F-35 Joint Strike Fighter on order for the Royal Australian Air Force are overrated and the plane's combat performance greatly exaggerated, a defence lobby group has claimed.

The complaints by Air Power Australia, longtime critics of the $16 billion JSF acquisition, were made last night before a public hearing of parliament's defence sub-committee.

Latest-generation Russian fighters such as the Sukhoi T-50 would easily defeat the F-35 in air-to-air combat, Air Power's Peter Goon said, referring to recent modelling tests by his organisation.

"The aircraft we are planning to buy is carrying over 2000 pounds (900kg) of dead weight," Mr Goon said, referring to the JSF's big jet engines.

New Russian and Chinese air defence radars would also have little trouble detecting the JSF, a craft touted for its stealth qualities, he added.

The RAAF says it wants 100 US-designed JSFs to replace the decommisioned F-111 strike aircraft, with the first squadron supposed to be operating by 2018.

But the program has been mired in cost overruns and delays.

Last month US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta ordered the purchase of US JSFs to be delayed to allow Lockheed-Martin time to resolve production and technical shortcomings.

The company is contracted to deliver the first two training aircraft in 2014 with another 12 scheduled for 2015-17.

Defence Minister Stephen Smith has said he is now considering an option to order additional F/A-18F Super Hornets to fill any capability gap created by further JSF production delays.

[SkyDancer]

I think the F-18 Hornet is a pretty good fighter. Still, my hearts love is the F-16. I learned air combat maneuvers at Air Combat USA. I've taken several of their flights and learned a lot from those guys. We flew SIAI Marchetti-260's. Okay sure, they're prop but WOW!!!! You get into a furball rat chase with those guys and it's a blast!!!!

[Chode]

it's kinda like apples and oranges...

[Kozak]

Uh, an AMRAAM will kill about 50 miles outside of gun range. You need to alive to be superior....

[Erik Latranyi]

How much is truly known about the Russian T-50?

[Secret Agent Man]

They could even get a f-15se now.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

“If the JSF is so bad in comparison to the Russian and Chinese designs then how come the Chinese have done everything in their power to steal every secret it has?”

With respect, the Chinese are probably working to steal US secrets related to steam valves and felt tip pens almost as much as they are working on mil secrets.

[glorgau]

If they have to rewrite code, it should be no problem getting some H1-Bs to do it on the cheap.

[Mariner]

Here's another "analysis" comparing dogfight qualities of the F-35 to the new birds from everyone else.

First, this is NOT an air superiority fighter and was never intended to be. Second, put US Avionics and Weapons in it and YES, it would defeat the Russian and Chinese birds easily.

Without a dogfight.

Sheesh, what passes for defense analysis now days...

[Iron Munro]

They said the same things about the MiG-25 Foxbat until a Soviet defected in one.

Is that the one western "experts" speculated had an outer skin of titanium that turned out to be just plain steel?

[Mariner]

"the future will be thousands of drones versus a handful of 1980s tech"

The F35 can control those drones through it's RADAR.

[SkyDancer]

Get down in ground clutter.

[Nowhere Man]

It’s the pilot not the plane.

Agreed, the training of the pilot, his/her skills and the application of his/her ship is what is important (of course you can add in intangibles too such a luck, divine intervention and what else you can think of) but the first three are important. It is quite possible where you could have an F-100/MiG-19 win over a Su-30/F-22 although if I had to take something up, I'd want at least an F-4 or something made from 1960/1965 onward. Actually jet fighter performance in the physical world such as max speed, range and maneuverability pretty much plateaued at about 1960, from then on, it was mainly improvements in avionics/computers and stealth, the latter I think is overrated IMHO.

I'm a believer in Kurt Vonnegut where he wrote in his 1958 story, "The Manned Missiles," where you had UAV's fight each other in the future to a stalemate where you had the idea of using manned aircraft and manned kamikaze missiles being used to overcome the artificial intelligences of the UAV's.

[Nowhere Man]

I read that too about the MiG-25, when you took it about Mach 2.5, you had to nurse the engine, otherwise it would crap out on you.

[Imnidiot]

The way I remember that is that, yes, everyone laughed at the round-head rivets and the vacuum tube radar...that is, until a year later when the report was released. It said the round-rivets were used in non-aerodynamic areas and that US planes (Phantoms) built in the same time frame as the MIG also used vacuum tube radar, and that the Russian radar was more powerful than ours. People weren’t laughing any longer.

[Nowhere Man]

IIRC, pulse CW radar can detect stealth aircraft, a technology that was used by Chain Home by the UK in the late 1930’s and World War II.

[353FMG]

Hell, everything we buy in this country is made in China.

Don’t be surprised if most of the parts of the F-35 are also made there.

[70times7]

How does the F-22 stack up against the F-16 IYO?

[Texas Fossil]

I was aware that the round rivets were in unimportant areas.

I knew about the tube radar issue.

But my point was that what we observed as “performance” (climb rate). Always caused engine failure.

Others mentioned it is the pilot and not necessarily the plane.

The Japanese Zeros in WWII out maneuvered our fighters, but tactics overcame that. They had little armor.

[SkyDancer]

Don’t know.

[Texas Fossil]

Yep, plain stee.