Posted on 01/28/2012 4:17:11 PM PST by george76
I have no problem with liars facing consequences for lying.
I hate liars.
The ‘slippery slope” argument works for a lot of things, but not this. If you lie about military service in order to promote yourself or your Democrat politicians, then you go to jail. If such laws are good for protecting cops, doctors, lawyers, and a slew of other licensed professionals (and their clientele), then they are good for genuine military warriors. This law is merely adding a deserving “profession” (combat veterans) to the list.
“If such laws are good for protecting cops, doctors, lawyers, and a slew of other licensed professionals (and their clientele), then they are good for genuine military warriors. This law is merely adding a deserving “profession” (combat veterans) to the list.”
I guess we’ll see how it plays out; I’d prefer they look at individual cases for meaningful misrepresentation (in a legal sense) rather than a blanket feel-good law that could be used as often as not against actual servicemen who have a different take on their experience than the US government’s officially-recorded version of it. Unlike the field you mention above, this case involves somebody inventing a past rather than a current profession.
“but some total jerk impersonating a hero does not in any way diminish my respect and admiration for all those that serve or have served in the military whether they got a medal or not.”
Same here; I don’t see now this reflects on people who really served, except it should be flattering that the dirtbag thought it was worth impersonating someone he could probably never be.
For many reasons I support this law. Posers often figure out ways to make money from their invented hero status; posers have found their way into combat zones and training jobs using their fake credentials and the result may well be loss of life and limb for those that expect to be properly trained or protected by a poser.
Many have used their stories along with fake documents to bilk the VA and other agencies out of benefits they did not earn. I also have a problem with those that claim things that others paid for in blood, sweat, and tears. It is also a problem for me when posers act in such a manner as to discredit the real Veterans or used to support politicians and policies. Many of the so-called Vietnam Veterans that were high profile against the war turned out to be posers and I have had a bad taste in my mouth ever since.
If a real Veteran wants to support or oppose a certain candidate or policy- more power to them, they have earned the right. When fake Veterans are paraded around to give the public the false impression that many veterans support something/someone that most do not- that just makes me very angry.
I don’t care what story is used to pick up women, but most go far beyond that. I have never heard of charges being brought in a stolen valor case unless the poser is using his claims to make money, steal money- or appearing in uniform with unearned medals/rank. I think the barroom liars are safe.
I agree with that. And in any event, I doubt it will ever be an easy thing to nail somebody for stolen valor.
A great example is the case of Marine Corps combat veteran Gunnery Sgt. Jack Coughlin who made a lot of money selling a book called, 'Shooter: The Autobiography of the Top-Ranked Marine Sniper'.
Coughlin was never a Marine sniper in the first place, and the book is laughable in its description of Marine sniper activities. Of course, he wouldn't know much about it because he never attended Scout Sniper Basic School. Theory has it that Coughlin may indeed have made a bunch of good shots in combat at some point, and he may have even been attached to a real sniper team. (Sniper teams often borrow a couple of extra bodies from infantry companies when they go on missions.)
I happen to know that Coughlin is quite the subject of ridicule at a certain Scout Sniper Basic School where a beat up copy of his book is routinely picked apart for its many errors, and the student Marines joke, "Hey, I'm ranked 7th!", and "Aww, I'm only ranked 30th.", etc. (There are, of course, no "rankings" for Marine snipers let alone "top ranked".)
So here's an imposter who lied not only about being a Marine sniper, but called himself the "top ranked" sniper(!), in order to sell a book. Incredibly, the guy still shows up as a commentator on History and Military Channel documentaries!
Yes, there are REMFs who drove desks and brag about their deeds. But, have they made false claims for personal gain? If they have, these are the scum the Stolen Valor Act wants to put away.
And yes, I've done my time in the service, got shot at, and I want the fakes in Leavenworth for 20 years.
Hopefully, the SC decides better and overturns this decision; they’ve surprisingly been making a few good decisions lately. That last thing we need is to introduce the notion that the legal system can start going after people for lying.
But illegal?
Maybe if they made it a tag-on multiplier for fraud cases or something, but to make it a primary offense?
As much as I may find the behavior itself despicable, I just can't support a law like this. It opens doors that are supposed to remain permanently locked.
But we already have laws to punish people for fraud. Why would we need this? It's just another opening for abuse and/or precedence.
I find it hard to comprehend how a conservative would support locking up some jackass because he lied just to get laid. He may need one of my Tony Lama's up his dark side, but I can't support arresting him.
You either believe in freedom, or you don't. There is no middle ground, picking or choosing. Freedom takes the good with the bad in the name of individual freedoms, not just the ones we like.
What if they claim military honors when running for office? Isn’t that a “hiring” preference? What if they are asking to be given a position of trust, such as a community leadership job where they might be placed with children?
People who falsely claim to have earned these medals aren't just misrepresenting themselves, they are lying about having received this official endorsement.
How is this different from a fly-by-night "drug" company making false claims about FDA endorsements?
Normally, I might agree with you, but when a lie becomes a theft and a demeaning of those who spilled their blood for the rest of us, I agree with the law. Too many claim to be what they aren't because they know that folks will admire them and buy them a meal or provide other support. In effect, they are using the good name of others to steal from us and theft is a crime unless you're a politician.
A few years ago I visited with a guy wearing a Vets for Kerry t-shirt. During our conversation I learned he was a draftee and spent two years in the Army. Later he spent almost twenty years as a teacher and was a member of the teachers union.
Technically he wasn’t lying. In reality he was just another union member deceiving the public.
Rick Strandlof was making money while promoting democrats ?
A fraud on many different levels.
We had one those here on FR once. He went by DITHF.
If someone is misrepresenting themselves in a legal matter (including a job application where they are attesting that statements are true, or to qualify for a material gain/benefits), then they are either breaking an existing law or subject to firing already. If a law was designed specifically to sworn statements and such, I’d be more receptive to it.
Otherwise, we’ve just added another group to the latter in terms of “All animals are equal; some are more equal than others”. Every new law is another link in the chains that shackle us (including those that fund both the government making the law and the military it alledgedly will protect).
The Spec Ops crowd has always had a “wannabe” problem (beginning with Viet Nam), but it has gotten worse with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. There are more and more fakers and frauds out there. It has spread to regular and reserve and guard communities.
The VA has known this for years, but they have padded their care rolls with “wannabes” to get an increased budget every year. As a result, people who do not deserve benefits are stealing them from those who truly earned them with their own sweat and blood.
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