Space travel emerges as wedge in Florida primary race

Fox News ^ | January 28, 2012

[Cincinatus' Wife]

.....While Gingrich is floating space-travel plans at a staggering rate -- even for a candidate who's been teased for his frequently "grandiose" proposals -- Romney is proudly tamping down the dream.

After ridiculing Gingrich on Thursday for pushing expensive and allegedly outlandish proposals, the former Massachusetts governor on Friday suggested Gingrich was pandering. And, Romney conceded, he does not really have a space plan. Not yet, anyway. Rather, Romney committed to carefully creating one once he's president.

"In the politics of the past, to get your vote on the Space Coast, I'd come here and promise hundreds of billions of dollars -- yeah, you want to hear that, yeah. Or I'd lay out what my mission is, here's what we're going to accomplish. I'm not going to do that," Romney said.

The candidate said he is not going to tell Florida "what the mission will be," but "how I'm going to get there." He said he'd bring in experts from across the military, NASA, and leading institutions and businesses, and then create a plan.

It is a risky move on the Space Coast. Romney is trying to cast himself as the straight-talking, pragmatic and fiscally responsible candidate -- the one who doesn't just tell voters what they want to hear....

But Gingrich, based on the reaction of his audiences, seems to be feeding a spark in Florida. With the space industry facing massive layoffs following the end of the space shuttle program, Gingrich is urging Americans to dream big once again and likening his critics to those who would doubt John F. Kennedy or the Wright brothers.

"I am sick of being told we have to be timid," Gingrich told an enthusiastic crowd in Florida on Wednesday.

[OPS4]

Read my comment just above yours we did not ratify the treaty.

[frithguild]

"The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, require authorization and continuing supervision by the respective States parties to the Outer Space Treaty. "

http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/tos/tos.html

The UN seems to disagree.

I have not fully read the sources you have cited. All I am telling yoy is that the treaty puts a gigantic legal obstacle in the way of raising private capital. Let's say you have billions and you plan a for profit launch from your own private equatorial island to mine an asteriod. Will the UN and all the signatories to the treaty just OK, good luck, when they have a claim to the profits?

[frithguild]

The US ratified the Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967, not the 1979 treaty.

[OPS4]

no ratification since Regan refused and overwrote it read the post and zots for you

[OPS4]

The Carter administration was in favor of approving the treaty. But with the election of Ronald Reagan the Moon Treaty is a “dead issue,” according to administration officials and Congressional sources. President Reagan does not plan to submit the treaty for ratification to the Senate and, even if he did, there is a consensus that the Foreign Relations Committee would not pass it. “The danger is over,” said one informed Senate source. “It’s not going anywhere so nobody has to worry about it.”

http://www.nss.org/settlement/L5news/1982-opposition.htm

[frithguild]

Did the Chinese Communists get that memo?

The Chinese will dela with the 1967 Treaty on the Exploration and Use of Outer Space as have with any other treaty. It is easy to withdraw from it. They may well plan to withdraw, once they have the advantage.

In the meantime, the treaty totally inhibits any venture from raising capital by putting gigantic leal risks into the mix. No private venture can raise enough capital to pull off a profitable mission. As a result, we get exploding shuttles with eco friendy foam and the promise of future Solyndras in space. Nobody will do it right until you get capitalists involved.

[OPS4]

http://www.nss.org/settlement/L5news/1982-opposition.htm
Wrong
The Carter administration was in favor of approvung the treaty. But with the election of Ronald Reagan the Moon Treaty is a “dead issue,” according to administration officials and Congressional sources. President Reagan does not plan to submit the treaty for ratification to the Senate and, even if he did, there is a consensus that the Foreign Relations Committee would not pass it. “The danger is over,” said one informed Senate source. “It’s not going anywhere so nobody has to worry about it.”

The disputed treaty is formally known as the “Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies.” It was adopted by the U.N. General Assembly without opposition and without vote in December 1979. Before it becomes legally binding for the U.S., however, the Moon Treaty would need to be signed by Reagan and ratified by the Senate.

[frithguild]

Dude, here is a quotation from an officially reported judicial opinion, which contains the official citation for the reatified 1967 treaty:

The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies FN49 [the Space Treaty], was signed at Washington, London, and Moscow on 27 January 1967, and entered into force on 10 October 1967.

FN49. 18 U.S.T. 2410, T.I.A.S. 6347, 61 U.N.T.S. 205 (1967).

Beattie v. U.S. 756 F.2d 91, 99, 244 U.S.App.D.C. 70, 78 (C.A.D.C.,1984)

[frithguild]

Every post I have made on this subject references the 1967 Treaty, which unquestionalbly has been ratified by the US. I never made mention of the 1979 treaty, which was far far worse.

[Krankor]

Gidney and Cloyd also refused to sign the treaty.

[OPS4]

Your full of it. This treaty includes International Law as well. In other words Newts right on and you can post till your blue in your face.

So are you voting for Newt?

[OPS4]

Yeah Bullwinkle wants to get to the moon too. lol

[frithguild]

If I were voting in Fla., I would probably vote Santorum, but only if Newt was certain to beat Romney. I would vote for Newt if it was not clear that he would beat Romney.

Full of it I am not. The proper legal citation for the 1967 Treaty ratified by the US is 18 U.S.T. 2410. I cannot help you to learn, if you will not accept what is fact.

[MinorityRepublican]

Whether you like it or not, funding the elderly with Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid is simply unsustainable.

[Venturer]

Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, Including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies of 1967.

I have no idea what that is or what it means, but I am sure China isn’t going to lose any sleep over keeping it’s covenants.

[LomanBill]

Nobody will do it right until you get capitalists involved. 

Bullshit.   Donald Trump didn't put us on the moon.

 

Evidently there's more required for the American Reformation than just letting Golden Calf Worsihpping megalomaniacs like Donald Trump and Co. pervert our culture into a systemically corrupt TV show that exists entirely for their own selfish benefit.

 

 

"We didn't truly know the dangers of the market, because it was a dark market," says Brooksley Born, the head of an obscure federal regulatory agency -- the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] -- who not only warned of the potential for economic meltdown in the late 1990s, but also tried to convince the country's key economic powerbrokers to take actions that could have helped avert the crisis. "They were totally opposed to it," Born says. "That puzzled me. What was it that was in this market that had to be hidden?"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

 

COMMERCE BETWEEN MASTER AND SLAVE IS [still] DESPOTISM

 

NO SALE, DONALD.

[frithguild]

Donald Trump didn't put us on the moon

Donald Trump didn't redesign a rocket to include "green" foam, which killed the pilot and crew.

[LomanBill]

Tell us Wiley, what was the name of the [capitalist] contractor who [allegedly] cut the corners to market that green product, hmmm -- Was it ACME?  Was it in bidness with the same [capitalist] venture who facilitated...

This?
http://www.sea-launch.com/news_releases/2007/nr_070611.html

What [capitalist] contractor was it that provided the faulty components and provided the crew of Apollo 13 with more of an adventure than planned, hmmm?

 

And then, please tell the class all about the wonderful "Capitalist" success of the Ameriquest Rolling Stones tour.

 

 

"We didn't truly know the dangers of the market, because it was a dark market," says Brooksley Born, the head of an obscure federal regulatory agency -- the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] -- who not only warned of the potential for economic meltdown in the late 1990s, but also tried to convince the country's key economic powerbrokers to take actions that could have helped avert the crisis. "They were totally opposed to it," Born says. "That puzzled me. What was it that was in this market that had to be hidden?"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/view/

 

"ALL YOUR CAPITAL ARE BERONG TO US, HA HA HA"

http://english.sinopec.com/about_sinopec/our_business/our_partners/

FAIL.

And, speaking of The Company's space exploits in fiction...

"Aliens - PROMETHIUS" trailer:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sftuxbvGwiU

In the Heart of Darkness, no one can hear you scream.... not even if you're a Company Man ;-}

[LomanBill]

>>Donald Trump didn’t redesign a rocket

True. The only thing Donald Trump has helped “design” is a generation of Useful Idiots who’ll drink (D)onkey urine - and then beg for more.

[frithguild]