Posted on 01/13/2012 6:14:08 PM PST by VinL
Furthermore, making a profit is only one component of owning a business. Whatever happened to the idea that you are responsible for your workers and to the larger community? Too often, people feel like just pawns in a ‘game’ of ever increasing largesse for the top dogs. The big shots are always the winners – often getting payouts in the millions when their companies fail — and the “losers” are left to figure out how to eat or buy clothes for their children. (A new study found that $100 million “golden parachutes” have become commonplace for failed CEOs).
Romney’s “class envy” claim is predicated on a lie we often here from the uber-rich and their defenders: the highest goal and achievement for Americans is to be wealthy, when all most people want is to be able to provide a decent lives for their families…
The unlikely hero in this tale has been Newt Gingrich, who has been making the most coherent argument for ethical capitalism. Says Gingrich, what we want is, “a free enterprise system that is honest. . . fair to everyone and gives everyone an equal opportunity to pursue happiness.” Criticizing Romney’s brand of free enterprise, (Newt)said, “It’s not fine if the person who is rich manipulates the system, gets away with all the cash and leaves behind the human beings.”
Be still my heart.
(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...
And this attack on free enterprise using the term "ethical capitalism" is going to get him the nomination. This socialist nonsense will sell with the left and the media, but main street won't buy into it. Main street will figure out pretty quickly that it won't be long before the new "monitors of ethical capitalism" will come for their slice of the American pie.
Questions? You mean that list of red herrings you introduced? Sure, I'll have a go at it.
What market forces are exhibited when looting a company?
Not applicable. Bain Capital was not in the business of looting companies.
How is it capitalism when you loot the pension funds of a company, and cause the taxpayers to pick up the costs of those pensions?
Not applicable. There is zero evidence to suggest that Bain Capital looted pension funds, especially funds under the control of the United Steel Workers Union.
How is it capitalism when you demand kickbacks and buy-ins from state and local governments to keep the business from folding, while you are looting it?
There is no evidence to suggest that this took place. Taking advantage of already available tax breaks that are already accessible to one's competitors hardly qualifies as 'demanding kickbacks and buy-ins'. Besides, no on forced the hand of said governments. It is the responsibility of any business to seek the best deal available.
How is it capitalism when you take the cash out of a company, then fire the workers, and force the rest of the taxpayers to fund their unemployment checks?
No one forced taxpayers to do anything. Taking cash out of a company to pay off investors is the proper course of action since those same investors pumped cash in to that company. I see there is no outrage when that happened. Go figure. And when a plant is no longer making money due to such market forces as high labor costs, low productivity, lower prices, steep competition, and the threat of yet another USW strike, the procedures involved in closing that plant typically involves letting go of the workers.
How is it capitalism when you deliberately loot the company and force it into bankruptcy, thereby stiffing all of the vendors and suppliers to take 5 or 10 cents on the dollar, plus court costs, for services and materials already provided to the company?
Not applicable. Bain Capital was not in the business of looting companies and forcing them into bankruptcy. Their track record was good. Each and every time they took on a new venture, investors lined up to purchase bonds because they knew that Bain would give them a good return on their investment.
How is Romney’s corporate raiding different from the actions of the robber barons of the 19th century?
As it relates to the demonization of successful business people as an exercise in class-envy, there is no difference.
How is any of that “capitalism”?
Any of what you just described? It isn't. Hence, the 'red herring' label.
I hope that helps.
but I won’t contribute to blasting away a fundamental bedrock, even if it does have some cracks here and there
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Gaffer, imo, you should. Because what you and I see as capitalism and constitutional America, no longer exists in America... These leftists, and complicit GOP, are detonating and blasting away at the bedrock. And if we don’t stop it now, there will be no bedrock to save.
And, I honestly believe that.
You asked: "Also, I would ask my Newt supporter FRiends where was the outrage with Newt trading influence for millions?"
First, Newt was a contractor with Fannie and Freddie. He was not an employee or a member. They purchased a service from him via contract. At the SAME TIME, so did the Department of Defense, particularly the War College. Are we to believe that contracting in one agency is fine, but contracting in another is not?
Besides, as you recall Newt left Congress with ethics charges hounding him (unfairly it turned out), and with his republican enemies having replaced him in a coup: Boehner, DeLay, etc. Those men assumed power, and to be perfectly frank with you, Newt had ZERO influence left in Congress to trade.
What he had was a remarkable gift of insight, history, narrative, and public outreach. Those are the things purchased by DOD and F&F.
This line of attack is so insidious. Did the business do anything illegal, no! When the business failed we have a bunch of people come out and say the business owners should have sacrificed everything to protect their way of life. I don't buy any of this and think this line of attack on free enterprise is going to backfire and get the one guy we don't want the nomination.
You’re embarrassing yourself and our great cause.
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What great cause is that? Our Supreme Court ruling based on European law- or the Establishment’s continuation of the nanny state- or GOP Powell’s doctrine- “The Americans want more government?”.
Like him or hate him, Newt is taking a stand for your beliefs- in clear confrontation with all Establishment forces alligned against him.
Make sure you also send them to post 264 so that they can learn what a pile of crap #256 really is.
Is abortion illegal?
NO!
So I guess we can't criticize doctors who use abortion as their business model.
As long as what they are doing with their business is legal, then who are we to condemn them?
That line of attack is insidious.
You are so right. Attack Romney on his failure as a Gov, on romneycare, gun control, abortion. Romney running Bain Capital is a dumb line of attack and plays right into the socialists hands. Are we supposed to believe that Gingrich, who traded influence for millions at the public trough, would be a good leader of "ethical capitalism"?
Friedman states, there are three alternatives for a monopoly: public monopoly, private monopoly, or public regulation. None of these is desirable or universally preferable. Monopolies come from many sources, but direct and indirect government intervention is the most common, and it should be stopped wherever possible. The doctrine of "social responsibility", That corporations should care about the community and not just profit, is highly subversive to the capitalist system and can only lead towards totalitarianism.
Fridman says, "History suggests that capitalism is a necessary condition for political freedom" and that, "the most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit." that is the closest he comes to a moral or ethical framework.
The most insidious part about it is that the business didn't fail. It came out of its reorganization and blossomed. In 2007 when the company was sold to Siemens, the company was valued at $6.4 billion. Not bad for a company that was only worth $440 million when Bain Capital took over.
Amen. In fact, in a true free-market system not distorted by discriminatory tax codes, heavy-handed costly regulation that gives larger businesses profound advantages, and other government-generated manipulations, the greediest capitalist GOES DOWN because another capitalist is always there to provide the product or service at a lower price.
Only a fool thinks Newt or Perry are advocating laws against greed. Newt is being a warrior, fighting a despicable enemy, Mitt Romney, who is a statist through and through. ANYONE HERE who doesn't see that, as Thomas Sowell himself has said, it would be MUCH better to have Gingrich than big government liberal statist Romney, needs to wake up.
Gingrich is doing what needs to be done to TAKE ROMNEY DOWN. And there are people here who find the process just too unsavory ... they're just too squeamish ... so they attack Gingrich because they don't like the way he's going about taking down Romney. Boo friggin' hoo!
I am CERTAIN that Gingrich would be a hundred times better than Romney in both the presidential election and ultimately in the White House. I think Santorum would be great in the White House, but am less sanguine as to whether he has the sand to take on the Obama Whirlwind.
You folks who are attacking Gingrich for the way he is attacking Romney, are losing sight of the forest for the trees and you are indirectly AIDING AND ABETTING ROMNEY, who is by far the greater threat to America and our freedoms.
For God's sake, WAKE UP!
Godspeed, Newt Gingrich.
His thin skin has revealed exactly who he is. He’s the guy who, if you run enough negative adds against him, will turn his guns on the very foundations of his own country in an effort to shoot down the creator of the adds. Do we need a president ad reckless as this? I know I don’t.
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Right- I knew I could get you to admit it. Great. You don’t have to like Newt. That’s fine. But, at least now, we can dispense with your indefensible sophistry. Good luck to your candidate, Chris.
I'm not kabar, but please see my post 313. :^)
Friedman: Spending by government currently amounts to about 45 percent of national income. By that test, government owns 45 percent of the means of production that produce the national income. The U.S. is now 45 percent socialist.
Did you pay all cash for your home or did you put 10 ot 20 percent down? Did the house double in value by 2006? Were you a greedy pig for refinancing, taking money out and buying a vacation home with it? When the market crashed in 2008-2009 was it wise as a matter of hindsight that you did not sell in 2006 or that you “looted” the house back then by refinancing it to deploy your gain in other areas to try to achieve growth.
Wonderful example!
Attacking one of the core beliefs of conservatives "Free Enterprise" makes no sense. If Bain had broken the law a high profile guy like Romney would have been indicted.
Yes, agreed.
The other thing I forgot to mention in post 271 was that as Hoodat said GS did survive the Chapter 11 bankruptcy which was not primarily to liquidate assets but to seek protection to try to keep the company going.It did survive and the only plant that was liquidated was the unionized one. Those were the 750 who lost their jobs. The other 3100 non unionized workers in non unionized plants did keep their jobs and although not currently owned by Bain the company has grown under a succession of owners to 6000 employees and is the 5th largest steel company in the US.
Lesson learned. Never buy a company with a union component to it.I only wish Obama had done this with GM and put it into Chapter 11 to expunge the cancer.
1010RD, check your ideological zealotry at the door when gaging Gingrich's utility as a warrior bent on taking out a MUCH GREATER enemy to thee and me, Mitt Romney.
Oh, GOOD ONE, Marlowe!!! Yep, those doctors who make money by providing abortions are just being good capitalists. It IS legal, after all!
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