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Because Islamists hate us for a host of reasons unrelated to Israel

Yes but do they hate us for reasons related to Israel? If so, would rationalizing our relationship with Israel reduce the hatred and reduce the risk?

showing our weakness by surrending friends invites attack

Why do we think that rationalizing our obligations toward Israel constitutes "surrendering" our allies? After all, Israel has won every war it as fought and it alone among its immediate neighbors is possessed of nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Does the same logic about inviting attack apply to Taiwan, South Korea?

If by Israel lobby you mean that vast majority of American cities, um yes.

I'm not clear on your meaning, but what is your view of the power of the Israeli lobby to influence foreign policy? This is not and illegitimate question it is being asked, for example, about our relationship with Cuba being influenced by Cuban Americans. In the past it was alleged that our relationship with China was affected by the "China lobby." As someone with partial Irish blood, I am very well aware of century long history of American politicians twisting the British lion's tail. The influence of the Israeli lobby is unquestionably strong, some would say the strongest in the nation, others would put it behind the NRA etc. but the point remains, the Israeli lobby influences our foreign policy and the subject should be addressed because it is not fair to subject Americans to the risk of terrorist nuclear attack without airing the issue.

Of course I can concede that our support for Israel has had its ebbs and surges but the overall course has been in support Israel even to court nuclear war with the Soviet Union as you point out in 1973. I cannot imagine a degree of support stronger than that except to actually engage in nuclear war on behalf of an ally. Unquestionably, Obama and the hard left are not fully in support of Israel and they would probably turn away from her entirely if it were politically feasible domestically. I will not admit that it is a "silly error" referring to our long history of support with the word "always". It is unquestionable that in the eyes of the world and in the eyes of the American domestic electorate America is inextricably identified with Israel. That includes the eyes of the Arab and Muslim world.

I have yet to hear what we get out of our support of Israel.

If we abandon our support for Israel tomorrow, why would that be "selling out" Israel? Why do we owe Israel anything? I have no doubt that we would still have some problems with the Muslim world if we abandon our support of Israel, but, "dealing with the facts," do you have any factual evidence that that is true? Michael Scheurer, for example, sees our problem with terrorism to be of our own making, part of which is our support for Israel.

You and d-fendr are the posters who replied with facts. I applaud you for that.

I have yet to hear what we get out of our support of Israel.

We get the same thing as we get for our support of England.

(Or at least our former support as Obozo would seem to have abandoned both; and you apparently are with him, on this at least. "What's in it for me?" ME. ME. ME.)

ML/NJ

thanks for your reply.

One point I didn’t make that relates to your question of what would happen if we stopped supporting Israel.

I believe our support of Israel keeps some big players from doing worse. Like it or not, the ME with its oil is an integral part of world affairs and diplomacy. If we greatly weakened our support, the big enemies of the US would, I believe, feel free to fill the vacuum in order to increase their power in this vital region.

Without US backing, the Soviets, Chinese, et al could dominate the region creating a huge strategic problem for the US.

“I have yet to hear what we get out of our support of Israel.”

Turning loose of the only true democratic form of government, and our long time ally, in the ME would be a form of slow suicide, IMO.

Would you do the same to England?

BTW, are you talking about the Michael Scheurer who said this?

“...the only chance we have as a country right now is for Osama bin Laden to deploy and detonate a major weapon in the United States.”

Osama is gone. I guess we are doomed as a country.

>Yes but do they hate us for reasons related to Israel? If so, would rationalizing our relationship with Israel reduce the hatred and reduce the risk?

Not likely. Brigitte Gabriel, a person who would know about such matters, states that Islamists hate us because we are unbelievers. Or unbelievers who refuse to know their place. I suspect that we also stand in the way of their creating a modern version of the old Islamic Caliphate, a world superpower in medieval times.

Yes but do they hate us for reasons related to Israel? If so, would rationalizing our relationship with Israel reduce the hatred and reduce the risk?
Yes. If you read Bin Ladin's declaration of war on the US, he blames us for the Gulf War, the occupation of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, supporting dictators who are returning the Muslim world to the "Jahiliyyah" (pre-Islamic or decadent state). But we are also blamed for Sebia's "mass murder" or Muslims, despite our intervening to stop this and for Russia's "mass murder" of Muslims on the Caucuses. He called for the reconquest of Al Andalus, which we would not allow as Spain is in NATO.
We can laugh and call this irrational but it is not. And surrendering Israel and even all of Europe would only buy us temporary peace. The mere act of refusing to convert after invitation and any real or perceived oppression of American Muslims would be reason enough for Jihad against us. Just ask the Byzantine Empire or Sassanide Persia.

Why do we think that rationalizing our obligations toward Israel constitutes "surrendering" our allies? After all, Israel has won every war it as fought and it alone among its immediate neighbors is possessed of nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them. Does the same logic about inviting attack apply to Taiwan, South Korea?
South Korea can take care of itself. I don't think that Muslims care about Taiwan, but they do understand retreat. Bin Laden spoke of our cutting and running from Somalia.

The US arms, funds and protects Israel's enemies. We protected the PLO in the 1980s and today. The Israel Lobby is a lot less powerful than people imagine, because there is no single lobby, but many groups who agree on only certain issues.

I have yet to hear what we get out of our support of Israel.
During the Cold War, Israel limited the power of Soviet allies and clients. After the Cold War, Israel has still kept the Muslim world divided, although Obama's support for the Muslim Brotherhood may be undoing this. Israel provide intelligence and training and acts as a magnet to Muslim hate. They hate us anyway, so why not let them focus their hatred on Israel.

Michael Scheurer, for example, sees our problem with terrorism to be of our own making, part of which is our support for Israel.
Scheurer sees the threat and pisses in his pants. He seeks accommodation and appeasement, not noticing that this has never worked.