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Santorum: Trim Social Security now even if painful
Associated Press ^ | Jan 6, 2012 6:35 PM (ET) | CHARLES BABINGTON

Posted on 01/06/2012 6:38:10 PM PST by DJ MacWoW

KEENE, N.H. (AP) - Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum called Friday for immediate cuts to Social Security benefits, risking the wrath of older voters and countless others who balk at changes to the entitlement program.

"We can't wait 10 years," even though "everybody wants to," Santorum told a crowd while campaigning in New Hampshire and looking to set himself apart from his Republican rivals four days before the New Hampshire primary.

Most of his opponents have advocated phasing in a reduction and say immediate cuts would be too big a shock to current and soon-to-be retirees.

(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: greed; planners; police; santorum; socialism; socialsecurity; teachers
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To: patriot08

You are simply arithmetically illiterate. I’ve shown the actual numbers and you simply ignore them.

If you can’t base an argument on reality, you shouldn’t argue.


601 posted on 01/08/2012 6:24:17 AM PST by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: TigersEye
Your "question" is based on the false premise that I attributed my comments to something Santorum had said.

Which makes your point pointless. Which was my point.

602 posted on 01/08/2012 6:50:28 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: deweyfrank
"You should have more respect for elders. You can FO. You youngsters should be prepared to give up your SS."


603 posted on 01/08/2012 7:05:49 AM PST by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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To: DJ MacWoW; volunbeer
Are YOU kidding? I have said REPEATEDLY that I am not ON SS and probably never will be. The questions asked were extremely personal and not ones a stranger asks. Why in the WORLD do you think that I should defend my opinion using personal information? What in the WORLD is the matter with YOU?

I apologize for offending you. I wasn’t intending for you to divulge any personal information but I can see why you thought I was. Again, I’m sorry I offended you.

However, as I and others have tried to point out, the Social Security and Medicare system is unsustainable. It’s a pyramid scheme and a lousy one at that. And at least with your typical pyramid scheme, you voluntarily surrender your own money to be scammed from you.

It’s not that I am not sympathetic to seniors depending on their SS checks or to folks who think they deserve to one day collect on the benefit since they’ve had payroll deduction taken for it all their working lives (like myself). But even if we eliminated SSI and Medicaid, deported every illegal alien and stopped all foreign aid programs, the SS and Medicare programs would still be bleeding us dry and something has to be done.

The only solution that I can see and not unlike what Santorum was proposing, is gradually reducing benefits, raising the eligibility age and means testing while gradually converting current workers to private and self managed retirement and health insurance plans by gradually reducing their FICA deductions and perhaps even (shudders) mandating for a time that the offset be put into retirement savings. I say (shudders) only because many people have lost the concept of personal responsibility and thrifty savings. Too many people would likely spend the reduction in FICA deductions instead of putting it into savings and one day we would have seniors who were truly destitute.

As I stated before, I have worked for many years as both corporate payroll manager and as an employee benefits manager and it never ceases to amaze me how many young workers fail to contribute or maximize their contributions to their company’s 401k plans, especially when many employers match contributions and the payroll deductions are pre-taxed.

604 posted on 01/08/2012 8:51:58 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Lacey

Your post said it all. That’s why casinos always do their best business as soon as the SS Checks come in.


605 posted on 01/08/2012 9:53:10 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dirtboy
Which was my point.

Talk about pointless. The rest of us aren't so parochial that we can't expand our conversation from the original point. Take your rigid narrow mind and shove it back up your backside, tinkerbell.

606 posted on 01/08/2012 2:55:22 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Twink

God bless you.


607 posted on 01/09/2012 4:55:59 AM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: okie01

And Pawlenty’s timidity with the press doomed his campaign.


608 posted on 01/09/2012 4:56:49 AM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi
Are you going to default on all US debts? Or only those owed to it citizens who are over 65 and had their money taken away at gun point?

Seems to me that it would be more honorable to default on all other debt first. They assumed risk, the SS payers had their money stolen.

609 posted on 01/09/2012 1:26:37 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi
Are you going to default on all US debts? Or only those owed to it citizens who are over 65 and had their money taken away at gun point?

Seems to me that it would be more honorable to default on all other debt first. They assumed risk, the SS payers had their money stolen.

610 posted on 01/09/2012 1:26:46 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

“the SS payers had their money stolen.”

Not by me. You’re trying to justify a crime against me because politicians committed a crime against you. There is not trust fund. It’s a bunch of promises past congresses made to past voters. I’m sorry they lied. I really am. Taking my money to make up for their sin is just as big a sin.


611 posted on 01/09/2012 1:43:05 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi
So you intend to default on all US government debts because it "wasn't done by you"?

Or do you intend to do this JUST to US citizens over the age of 65?

Please answer the question.

612 posted on 01/09/2012 1:46:17 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: Anti-Hillary

which still lacks the specifics.... I am not against the concepts. I may be for even more drastic measures but the rhetoric is all too general.


613 posted on 01/09/2012 2:33:02 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

First of all you’re arguing a non sequitur. It is not full of US bonds waiting to be traded. If tomorrow the Congress decided that the SS trust fund would be zeroed out and the President signed it then it would be zeroed out and there would be no default. It is an accounting gimmick they’ve been taking advantage of for years. Congress can increase benefits, decrease benefits, increase taxes, reduces taxes, increase employer taxes, change the interest rate used in calculations, whatever. Again, one can’t default on the SS trust fund because there are no bonds in it.

Second, what I would do about this mess is lump SS and Medicare together in one account and if it was running in the black, let people get retire with SS benefits. If not, don’t allow more people to retire yet with SS benefits. I just don’t want to see this country go into more debt.


614 posted on 01/09/2012 4:11:36 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi
There are no funds in it because it has been borrowed from.

But you don't intend to answer the question, that is fine.

I just find it interesting that some people are willing to default on borrowed money that was taken from their fellow citizens at gun point but will pay off in full with interest money borrowed from foreign nations. I would think it would be the other way around.

Fascinating.

615 posted on 01/09/2012 8:40:36 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

What question didn’t I answer?


616 posted on 01/09/2012 8:50:47 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

“but will pay off in full with interest money borrowed from foreign nations”

You don’t know what a publicly traded bond is. The initial buyer might have been foreign. It doesn’t matter. They can trade the bond. It is the same as any other bond. We can’t decide to default on some publicly traded bonds and not others because we don’t know who has which bond.

The social security trust fund wasn’t borrowed from. It was spent. There is nothing in there but promises by past congresses. It was always that way. Everyone knew it. Past congresses promised that voters who aren’t even born yet will vote to live up to their promises. It was a promise that a politician made.


617 posted on 01/09/2012 8:58:27 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only $30K over your working life, that’s close to $220,500.

I'm sorry, but your math is WAY, WAY off.

Let's say a self-employed person was earning $30,000 in 2012, their inflation-adjusted wage in 1966 would be $4,284.60. Also keep in mind that the Social Security rate didn't reach 15% (self-employed rate) until 1987.

If you run the numbers using your suggested $30K/year, adjust the wage for inflation, and use the actual Social Security withholding rates, the total withheld from 1966 to 2011 would total just $101,684.67. That's a far cry from $220,500.

618 posted on 01/10/2012 5:20:01 AM PST by whd23 (Every time a link is de-blogged an angel gets its wings.)
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To: babygene; volunbeer

Sorry to dredge up this old debate. It took me a couple days to read thru the whole thread. Interesting comments on both sides.

I think there will be a time when ‘social security’ on this thread will be replaced with ‘401k’, and the arguments will be the same. ‘But I paid into it, it was promised to me, it is mine’.

Or am I way off? Would like to get both of your opinions on it...Thanks.


619 posted on 01/12/2012 8:49:43 AM PST by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes

“I think there will be a time when ‘social security’ on this thread will be replaced with ‘401k’, and the arguments will be the same.”

It’s already been seriously discussed in Washington. What was proposed was rolling the 401Ks in with SS.


620 posted on 01/12/2012 2:04:37 PM PST by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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