Posted on 01/06/2012 6:38:10 PM PST by DJ MacWoW
KEENE, N.H. (AP) - Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum called Friday for immediate cuts to Social Security benefits, risking the wrath of older voters and countless others who balk at changes to the entitlement program.
"We can't wait 10 years," even though "everybody wants to," Santorum told a crowd while campaigning in New Hampshire and looking to set himself apart from his Republican rivals four days before the New Hampshire primary.
Most of his opponents have advocated phasing in a reduction and say immediate cuts would be too big a shock to current and soon-to-be retirees.
(Excerpt) Read more at apnews.myway.com ...
“Entitlement my ass, I paid cash for my social security insurance!”
It’s called an entitlement because you paid cash and then receive a benefit. Similarly, unemployment benefits are also called an entitlement.
I wanted my mother to live with my family. She wanted o live alone. She was so stubborn and had this independence streak till the day she died.
I know how you feel. My grandmother is doing the same thing and we subsidize her bills that are far more than her social security check. If anything breaks or her car breaks down we pay for that too.
I would love to watch her to spend her final days with her grandchildren surrounded by family instead of watching television by herself. It really seems like we got it all wrong somewhere does’nt it?
Did you get to watch that movie? It’s not too late. But dangerously close.
A promise to the elderly that isn't the EPA, Dept of Education, NPR, Acorn, Planned Parenthood, NLRB etc.
Let me clarify my purpose, not necessarily for you but for all who are reading, I wasn't relating my story for sympathy nor am I in search of personal solutions for our individual situation.
My anecdotes were, as were yours, intended to illustrate a typical situation that is undoubtedly shared by millions of others. Some are in better shape and many are in far worse shape. While everyone has a story for each of us our lives are not merely a story but our face-to-face experience with reality.
Again I thank you for your well wishes though. I am not dismissing them as unimportant or unwelcome at all.
drbuzzard told you - “He EARNED the money. Not one penny of yours came from your pocket and jumped into his.”
you said - Indeed it did... every extra nickle he got to keep was a extra nickle I had to pay. It was a redistribution of wealth from me to him. I EARNED the extra money that I had to pay in taxes to support his deduction(s) too.
Your not thinking very clearly this morning, are you?
babygene - I missed this in the thread and drbuzzard was apparently standing in response to your apparent outrage that I claim tax deductions.
Let me make this real simple. I pay approximately 40 grand a year in taxes (including state and local) after all of my deductions.
Please explain how you pay for me?
Why do you believe that I owe you because I have three little future taxpayers in my home and take deductions for them?
Why do you feel entitled to the fruits of my labor?
Are you on the right forum?
Thank you and I wish you the best.
The point that I was trying to make from our discussion buried in this thread was simply that we need to examine alternatives to the current system in order to avoid the generational theft that our government is practicing.
One of those alternatives is certainly to live with family, friends, or even roommates or other people who are struggling. I know that my grandmother paid into social security during her 30+ years as a nurse. I also know that she has already far exceeded her contributions on paper and the government had already spent her contributions paying for her parents generation. My great grandmother got a huge social security check and lived to be about 100 despite never working. It’s a flawed system that meets every definition of a legalized ponzi scheme.
I have never, nor would I, propose that we do not care for disabled persons or people who are incapable of caring for themselves. However, just like my dear Grandmother, I question the wisdom of paying money (we don’t have - we borrow it) to people so they can live alone in 3 bedroom homes and watch television all day when reality dictates that my children and future generations will pay for it. I would cut many things out of the budget far beyond social security but it must be reduced as well.
Almost every part of me welcomes it (i.e., for it to crash hard now) so that the rebuild process can start now and at least our kids & grandkids are living in the restoration and not the decline. The way I see it, the longer they keep kicking the can down the road, the worse it is going to get. At the point we have arrived at, it is never going to get "better" until after the crash, the longer it goes on, the worse it is for all of us (except for the PTB "elite").
When I say almost every part of me, I am honest to admit that there is a part of me (the selfish part) that fears the hardship, even though we've been preparing to the best of our abilities. But thankfully that fear and selfishness diminishes a bit more almost every day. I mean, it is at the point that you have to be completely in denial if you think that somehow (no matter who is elected) that all of a sudden the laws of economics and mathematics are somehow going to be suspended because this is the good old US of A. It is a painful truth that we all must come to accept, sooner or later.
You are an exceedingly good writer and a thoughtful person. I am glad that you made the effort to continue to respond.
Again, social security is not a replacement for that and if people can’t maintain their own household they should find other options before the government borrows on the backs of my children.
That is true but the existence of SS plays on human nature and inevitably some have used it as an excuse to delay or forgo responsibility for themselves or others. That is why socialism in general is evil. It has a corrosive effect on the character of individuals and society.
We have to now face the reality that it does exist and has existed for many decades. It should be eliminated but to do so without thought for the consequences of how we accomplish that has no more wisdom than implementing it in the first place. Everyone has the basic needs of food, shelter and medicine and when they are not met intense suffering is the result.
We can debate any of numerous ways those needs can be met but at the end of the day someone has to bear the expense of it. It is either that or people go without those basics. There would be a cost to society for that too. Just as individuals have responsibilities so do societies.
Self reliance is certainly one of the most positive traits an individual and a society can have. To live it and to teach it is one of the most compassionate acts of all. But to expect it of all and to expect it to become the norm when it has been methodically eroded by decades of deluded philosophies is to also be deluded into projecting a self-made idealism onto reality.
The dependence on government is not merely a bad choice it is a reality that has been created and encouraged by the malicious and the unthinking. It is a trap and while many have been lured into it through their own greed for a free lunch many others were skillfully played into accepting promises from a feckless government but at the same time forced into accepting it by laws that are ultimately enforced by the barrel of a gun. As all laws are.
This government and many state and local governments give me no reason to believe that we will restore discipline and fiscal sanity in the next decade. At the rate we are printing and borrowing money, as well as the numerous fiscal disasters we face in the near future, I have concluded that they will print money until that money is worthless.
Now you're getting into something that is even more fundamental to the current reality of the nation and gives me even more personal concerns than what happens to SS or other government programs. From the looks of it everything may be wiped out in the not too distant future.
That is a related but different subject but if it comes to pass it would make even the immediate cessation of all government programs seem like a minor tragedy. In the face of complete economic collapse political discussion wouldn't be just irrelevant it would become abhorrent in the scramble to survive. Or irrational. Who, on any side, would want to hear it?
Social Security is simply one broken part of our government and culture. It allowed the government to take money today because some believed there would always be more money tomorrow.
In its original form and conception it was economically sound and self-sustaining.
Social Security is only as good as the government that guarantees it and that government is now 16 trillion dollars in debt...
Yes, but that was not the reality when it was created and judging those who accepted it at the time by the criterion of today's situation isn't realistic. As it is not realistic to blame previous generations for not seeing how corrupt the FedMob is by citing its current levels of mendacity.
There is no doubt that every generation is guilty of being too naive about the propensity for government to accumulate power and misuse it. Eternal vigilance was and is the answer and we were explicitly given that advice. All we can do is deal with things as they are and make the best choices we can and give the best effort that we have.
I still maintain some optimism, although I don't live in dependence on it, based on the feeling that America is more of a conservative nation than not even if it doesn't quite realize it at the moment.
Big mistake Rick!
Do it anyway! No more excuses!!!
And then what? You’ve only resolved a tiny fraction of the problem.
I likewise wish you and yours all the best.
“Why do you believe that I owe you because I have three little future taxpayers in my home and take deductions for them? Why do you feel entitled to the fruits of my labor?”
To the extent that one person or class of person gets to take a deduction that others do not get, the group not getting the deduction are subsidizing the other.
Let me make it simple for you... Half the people in this country pay NO federal taxes because of the deductions they get. Some even get a refund even though they pay no taxes.
Of necessity, that means those of us that do pay taxes have to be taxed at a higher rate to make up for it. How can you say that I (or we) are not subsidizing them. They use government services too and are not paying their share. We are paying it for them - out of our pocket.
Got it?
Santorum is saying that those who depend on Social Security will not be impacted by the cuts.
“It’s called an entitlement...”
It’s called an ‘entitlement’ because the polititians want to play politics with it. Welfare is an ‘entitlement’. Unemployment benefits are an ‘entitlement’. Medicaid is an ‘entitlement’. Disability benefits from the government are an ‘entitlement’. Social Security is a government sponsored insurance program in which we are forced to participate. The amount of my monthly Soc Sec check is based on my and my employers’ contributions. That does not make it an ‘emtitlement’ in the political sense.
Free speach as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment is not an ‘entitlement’. The right to own and bear arms as guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment is not an ‘entitlement’. These rights are freedoms that we have and that the Founders had the sense to guarantee in the Constitution...they knew that at some point Government would try to infringe on these rights. These rights are not ‘entitlements’.
Thank you and the same to you.
I am in complete agreement with what you wrote. Again, they must find some way to phase out the program while trying to honor the agreement for those who must have it.
However, that assumes that my generation and my children will be responsible enough to save and prepare for their latter years. That is a big assumption!
I have not communicated it very well, but my belief is that our problems go much more to the individual and our culture that no longer resembles the America of old. The rampant consumerism and waste that I see every day by individuals does not give me much faith in the future. The level of individual debt in our culture gives me little hope that we will choose a fiscally responsible government. The belief by so many Americans that government (instead of them) should take care of their parents and belief of parents that they should not “burden” their children really troubles me more than the ills of social security.
Your "question" is based on the false premise that I attributed my comments to something Santorum had said. I did answer you by straightening out your false premise. Take it or leave it.
I hate to say it but I think America is going to have to experience some real serious pain before a serious correction in attitude and direction is taken. Then perhaps the mindset of individualism that I believe still exists in Americans as a whole will have a rebirth of energy. I think that is still part of our culture more than anywhere else in spite of the fact that it has been stunted and somewhat dormant compared to days past.
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