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To: volunbeer
One of the cornerstones of conservatism is self-reliance and individualism. That does not mean that we live our lives as hermits and fail to enjoy one of the most special parts of humanity - the connections with others.

You are an exceedingly good writer and a thoughtful person. I am glad that you made the effort to continue to respond.

Again, social security is not a replacement for that and if people can’t maintain their own household they should find other options before the government borrows on the backs of my children.

That is true but the existence of SS plays on human nature and inevitably some have used it as an excuse to delay or forgo responsibility for themselves or others. That is why socialism in general is evil. It has a corrosive effect on the character of individuals and society.

We have to now face the reality that it does exist and has existed for many decades. It should be eliminated but to do so without thought for the consequences of how we accomplish that has no more wisdom than implementing it in the first place. Everyone has the basic needs of food, shelter and medicine and when they are not met intense suffering is the result.

We can debate any of numerous ways those needs can be met but at the end of the day someone has to bear the expense of it. It is either that or people go without those basics. There would be a cost to society for that too. Just as individuals have responsibilities so do societies.

Self reliance is certainly one of the most positive traits an individual and a society can have. To live it and to teach it is one of the most compassionate acts of all. But to expect it of all and to expect it to become the norm when it has been methodically eroded by decades of deluded philosophies is to also be deluded into projecting a self-made idealism onto reality.

The dependence on government is not merely a bad choice it is a reality that has been created and encouraged by the malicious and the unthinking. It is a trap and while many have been lured into it through their own greed for a free lunch many others were skillfully played into accepting promises from a feckless government but at the same time forced into accepting it by laws that are ultimately enforced by the barrel of a gun. As all laws are.

This government and many state and local governments give me no reason to believe that we will restore discipline and fiscal sanity in the next decade. At the rate we are printing and borrowing money, as well as the numerous fiscal disasters we face in the near future, I have concluded that they will print money until that money is worthless.

Now you're getting into something that is even more fundamental to the current reality of the nation and gives me even more personal concerns than what happens to SS or other government programs. From the looks of it everything may be wiped out in the not too distant future.

That is a related but different subject but if it comes to pass it would make even the immediate cessation of all government programs seem like a minor tragedy. In the face of complete economic collapse political discussion wouldn't be just irrelevant it would become abhorrent in the scramble to survive. Or irrational. Who, on any side, would want to hear it?

Social Security is simply one broken part of our government and culture. It allowed the government to take money today because some believed there would always be more money tomorrow.

In its original form and conception it was economically sound and self-sustaining.

Social Security is only as good as the government that guarantees it and that government is now 16 trillion dollars in debt...

Yes, but that was not the reality when it was created and judging those who accepted it at the time by the criterion of today's situation isn't realistic. As it is not realistic to blame previous generations for not seeing how corrupt the FedMob is by citing its current levels of mendacity.

There is no doubt that every generation is guilty of being too naive about the propensity for government to accumulate power and misuse it. Eternal vigilance was and is the answer and we were explicitly given that advice. All we can do is deal with things as they are and make the best choices we can and give the best effort that we have.

I still maintain some optimism, although I don't live in dependence on it, based on the feeling that America is more of a conservative nation than not even if it doesn't quite realize it at the moment.

509 posted on 01/07/2012 4:16:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: TigersEye

Thank you and the same to you.

I am in complete agreement with what you wrote. Again, they must find some way to phase out the program while trying to honor the agreement for those who must have it.

However, that assumes that my generation and my children will be responsible enough to save and prepare for their latter years. That is a big assumption!

I have not communicated it very well, but my belief is that our problems go much more to the individual and our culture that no longer resembles the America of old. The rampant consumerism and waste that I see every day by individuals does not give me much faith in the future. The level of individual debt in our culture gives me little hope that we will choose a fiscally responsible government. The belief by so many Americans that government (instead of them) should take care of their parents and belief of parents that they should not “burden” their children really troubles me more than the ills of social security.


518 posted on 01/07/2012 4:48:53 PM PST by volunbeer (Keep the dope, we'll make the change in 2012!)
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