Posted on 10/18/2011 7:08:00 PM PDT by smoothsailing
Bryan Preston
October 18, 2011
There were two Ricks on debate stage tonight, and both came in loaded up and ready to hunt. Rick Santorum threw a blizzard of punches at Mitt Romney early over his claim that as president, Romney, the author of RomneyCare, would repeal ObamaCare. The punches landed and the damage showed on Romney’s face. Rick Perry came in loaded up to speak aggressively for his energy plan, and spoke with an energy and conviction that has not come through in previous debates. Romney came under the most intense fire he has faced in any of the 2011 debates and while he handled it well, the criticisms of his record are legitimate and will sting. Romney’s red face as he tried to to redirect the examination over to Newt Gingrich revealed that he knew the night wasn’t going well for him.
Herman Cain also faced the toughest questioning of any debate so far, regarding his 9-9-9 tax plan, and handled it mostly with his usual humor and wit. The former talk radio host can engage in an open debate with the best of them, but his lack of depth showed in spots. He didn’t seem to know the details of his 9-9-9 plan early on. Cain did do well when discussing his ideas for reforming health care: No mandates, but focus on market-based reforms like allowing purchase across state lines. Nothing new, but nothing wrong with any of it either.
Perry also hit Romney directly for “hypocrisy” for having hired illegal aliens. Romney laughed and denied, but the story has been out there since 2007 or thereabouts. Romney lost his cool, for the second time. Perry scored another direct hit, and Mitt turned red again. The ice man melted.
Perry also did well on the question of securing the border: It’s about a fence, plus other security measures including technology and boots on the ground. Bachmann got in a jab about the president’s illegal alien relatives who keep popping up in the news, before moving on to declare that she would build a fence along the entire border. There is actually less policy daylight between most of the candidates on the border than the stage arguments suggest, but the arguments drew out some personalities, and it’s hard to see Romney benefiting from the exchange.
Tonight’s was the most lively debate, and does have the potential to change the race a bit. Perry came to fight and from tax policy to spending to funding the UN, showed that his issue knowledge is broad. Romney wasn’t prepared to take hits from so many other candidates. Romney’s packed supporters in the audience and other blogs provided some soundtrack to back their man up but I doubt it did much good. Romney’s cool broke too many times for his own good. His whining about being talked over, when he isn’t shy about interrupting others, was entertaining but revealed a thin skin. Romney probably had his best moment during the religion debate, but that’s such tired ground now and Romney has so overreached on that issue that it’s unlikely to make any difference.
This was Perry’s best night. He took control when he needed to, threw the president’s and his competitors’ words against them at opportune moments, and showed a strong and knowledgeable presence going toe to toe with Romney. Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Michele Bachmann also had good nights. Gingrich can speak brilliantly on any policy thrown at him. His brief closing statement showed that he is among the adults in the room. Santorum spoke very well on values. Cain and Romney took sustained fire and handled it unevenly. Cain was at his worst on the question of whether he would contemplate releasing terrorists held at Gitmo in exchange for an American hostage. There is simply no way to justify his answer to Wolf Blitzer, earlier today. Ron Paul was, infuriatingly, Ron Paul, capable of saying things at the edge of brilliance but coupling them with statements that make little sense or betray a hole in his moral thinking. While I admire his logical mind, I don’t admire some of the places it takes him.
The clear winner tonight was Rick Perry. He looked like a seasoned leader who has found his voice, at last. Newt Gingrich came in a strong second, Cain and Santorum follow him and Romney follows them. He was strong in spots but had trouble keeping his cool, an d had no good answers to explain his own policy history. Passion is one thing; all of the candidates brought that tonight. Edging close to revealing a Hulk moment is something else.
There was something else different about tonight’s debate. In past debates, Romney’s press team has easily outpaced all of the other campaigns combined in the number of press releases they sent out while the debate continued. Not so, tonight. The Perry press team must have rolled over the Romney team 8 to 1 or more. From the top on down, the Perry team is moving with a new energy.
Plus, Newt will demolish Obama (insert loathing here and read tagline) in debate.
Of course it needs to be vetted. But at least Cain has laid some specifics on the table, unlike the rest.
I don’t have any confidence in the political class either—which is a major reason why I like Cain and his proposals. Perry and Romney = 4 more years of waffling compromises and business as usual. Enough of that.
I’d rather see bold and practical solutions, regardless of their supposed political feasibility. The US doesn’t have the luxury of playing politics anymore.
He does have a certain air of dignity about him, as well as a strong charisma. He truly is likable and simply personable. Unlike Romney who is a plastic coated stiff with a long list of slick prerehearsed lines. But he cannot compete against an honest natural like Perry in this stage of the campaign.
Newt won the day when he pointed out the Media’s bickering baiting and called for Lincoln-Douglas style debates. Not to mention his other direct and to the point views of the issues.
Romney won a draw in the pissing contest. It still makes me uneasy to see the cardboard cutout posture he retains. Something about not moving about naturally and freely just gets to me. Too much like a windup robot.
Perry (see pissing contest above)
Bachman seemed good but blew it when trying to compare apples to oranges against Cain, and then tried to separate herself from the men on the stage along with the women’s vote. Group politics is why we are in the societal situation we are in now. Outside of that, she held her own.
Santorum imploded with taking on the role of timekeeper which also made him look desperate.
Paul was, well, just Paul. He has wonderful ideas monetarily, and that is it. His Foreign policy stuff is just plain ostrich.
Cain, well everyone on stage came loaded for bear including the so-called moderator. Their only problem was, as much as they tried to put one there, there was no bear on the stage. Every shot at 999 was through the scope of the current tax system. Not a single person outside of Newt is willing to scrap the entire tax code as a starting point. Mitt was especially devoid of accepting that his premise was fatally flawed, and then wanted to shout anyone down trying to tell him where he was wrong. The Gitmo string was again an apples and oranges trap but he did set himself up for it by answering a hypothetical question about the Israeli swap.
Cain did gain points in his direct answer to electrifying a fence.
Perry’s competence of handling big jobs was really apparent when he said it would take 30 years to build the fence. On that point alone, isn’t that the same argument about new drilling we always get from the liberals? I suppose that he has never heard of a fireline approach instead of one bucket at a time.
It doesn’t take much more than a construction manager to know if the “contract” of the entire border be awarded to as many construction firms in the chain of local areas in essence it could easily be built in less than a year. Especially with all of the construction firms and people looking for work right now, at basement prices. If we are going to institute government temporary work projects, would this not be the best one to jump on right away?
We already know from the Kalifornya border what does and doesn’t work for particular geology so no typical years long engineering studies would be required slowing it down. And this is not even thinking out of the box.
The children took the liberals bait and went down the road to look petty and intellectually small, to the glee of the moderator, liberals and especially David Axlerod.
Too bad we don't have a candidate with Newt's intellect and knowledge, and Sarah Palin's charisma and inegrity.
Thank God. There are only two serious viable candidates on the stage, Perry and Romney. Those are the only two who thus far have shown they know what it really takes to win. To win the GOP nomination and the election, you have to prove that you can organize and raise money. Obama will raise $1Billion. The GOP nominee will be spending heavily into March. If he cannot show the organization and fund-raising prowess to raise upwards of $120 Million a quarter, he will have a very hard time getting his message out.
I think you nailed it, Sudetenland. No way was Perry the debate winner.
Too bad we don't have a candidate with Newt's intellect and knowledge, and Sarah Palin's charisma and inegrity.If we could find someone with integrity to go along with inegrity, we'd really have something.
LOL, Perry ended his campaign last night.
Rick needs to start writing refund checks.
“Really??? I thought Rick came off as dishonest (his attack on Mitt about the illegal aliens was intellectually dishonest since he did not hire them directly and fired the lawn company as soon as he found out that they had hired illegal aliens).”
That is a lie and easily proven. Look it up.
“If the best he can do on immigration is yelling at Romney for hiring a landscape company with illegals, that tells me something.”
The ‘landscape company’ = a friend of Romney’s from his church, and the FACT that he had illegals working at Mitts house for YEARS was well known by Romney himself!
Romney flat out lied in the debate.
I agree with you, I just watched it, Mitt DID turn red but on balance I give that exchange to Mitt even though at one point it looked like two schoolboys going at it.
“We’re not allowed to say anything positive about Romney on this FREE Republic site so i won’t.”
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Not true! You can say that he has great hair and teeth, he has a lot of business experience, he has good posture, he is a very experienced candidate, all that sort of good stuff.
Actually I think Newt has slightly better than a snowball’s chance, I mean seein’ how there ain’t no snowball’s runnin’ an’ all that.
“And if hiring a business with illegal employees means someone hired illegal aliens, then we’ve all hired illegal aliens in one way or another.”
The ‘business’ in question is a friend of Romney’s from his church, and Romney knew he had illegals working at his house, for years!
Do you get paid to spin for Romney? All the Romneybots seem to be using the same lame defence on that issue.
“Obama is a good speaker.”
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I agree that he can make a lot of people believe he is a good speaker, I don’t actually agree that he is a good speaker. He makes me along with a lot of others want to throw up. Bill Clinton was a lot better at the same age and I never was really impressed with Clinton as a speaker.
The GOP establishment and the media nominated our last candidate. We got Obama as a result.
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