Cain leads South Carolina Republican primary race

The Augusta Chronicle ^ | 10/17/11 | Walter C. Jones

[casinva]

I am not looking at whether we pay more or not in the long run. I am looking at the fact that Cain is adding federal empowerment zones and federal enterprise zones to the 999 plan, and that is taking our new national sales tax and directing it to expanded federal entitlements to low income families that live in minority urban neighborhoods.

That is a severe problem expanding the federal government like that when we are trying to reign in federal spending for welfare and social programs as it is! Plus adding the enterprise and empowerment zones back into federal government control, we are giving the federal government additional power to direct and administer more federal entitlements of their choice.

Not conservative, and they need to be put back into Bill Clinton’s and Al Gore’s closet where they were and where they should still be.

[Marie]

Hey at least Cain’s plan rewards people for WORKING.

[BagCamAddict]

Ok, time for a little math:

Under the current system, which has about 22% hidden taxes in everything we buy, a shirt that costs $30.00 at the store to you includes 22% hidden federal taxes ($6.60), and then if you have a State sales tax of 9% on top of that, the shirt ends up costing you $32.70 at the register.

Follow me so far?

Under the HYPOTHETICAL Cain plan, where that hidden 22% federal tax goes away, that same shirt now has a retail price of $30.00 - $6.60 (the hidden federal tax that will go away) = $23.40.

So the shirt has a store price of $23.40.

Follow me?

THEN, you pay 9% STATE sales tax = $2.11 STATE sales tax.

AND you pay 9% FEDERAL sales tax = $2.11 FEDERAL sales tax.

So the ultimate COST to you, the consumer, at the register, with this horrible extra tax, is:

$ 23.40
+ $ 2.11
+ $ 2.11

= $ 27.62

So, if this hypothetical is correct, you would save $ 5.08 on this shirt.

That’s a savings of $5.08/$32.70 = 15.5% of the cost of the item.

A savings of 15.5%.
A savings of 15.5%.
A savings of 15.5%.

Follow me?

This is obviously over-simplified, because I haven’t included the 9% corporate tax, and I haven’t included anything for market competition, etc. But you can see that it just MIGHT not be as bad as you think it is. Can’t you?

[South40]

Thanks for posting this Watchdog85.

[casinva]

But with the inclusion of federal enterprise zones and federal empowerment zones to give more federally-run benefits to urban minorities, we have sure given up a whole lot of freedom, liberty, and our right to say we stand for fiscal conservatism if we let him add those to his 999 plan.

Those of you who support Cain, support him, but stand up and tell him that as the conservatives you are, you will NOT stand for allowing liberal federal empowerment and enterprise zones to be included in his plan. Do not back down on this or you ALL will lose ground the Tea Party and all the other hard-working fiscal conservatives have made for us in this country.

[flaglady47]

And they no longer pay any taxes on their dividends or cap gains which would offset these other taxes.

You are assuming that senior citizens all have stocks to sell in the first place. Tons don’t. So, they will pay the new value added tax (which is what it really is) and get no other benefit out of 9-9-9. Bully. Great idea there.

[skinkinthegrass]

Perry may prevent Cain from getting the nomination,
ensuring that Romney does.

(IMHO) That's what "Clairity" (a RomBOT) does....
*droning incessantly*....Romney / Romney / Romney
Giving "Comrade Zer0", another 4 years to complete his task(s)."

[MHGinTN]

Perhaps ‘over simplified’ is the key here.

[RC one]

With the corporate tax rate dropped to the lowest tax rate in the free world, prices will drop and we may end up paying LESS for an item than we do now.

that's a big freaking assumption and there is nothing to suggest that it is a safe assumption. basically, much of the success of Cain's 999 plan rests on the willingness of businesses to make less money for goods when they can just as easily charge the same amount and make even more money. What would motivate them to make less money exactly? the goodness of their hearts? because they're just making too much money now thanks to 999 and they want to give back? and I'm not even mentioning the deflationary aspects of rapid and massive price reductions especially in the presence of a consumption tax that targets the bulk of our consumers.

[Marie]

“You assume that those hidden costs won’t remain hidden in the price in the form of corporate profits.”

Now profits are evil??

Am I on the DU?

As far as I understand it, when a corporation does well, their stock holders do well.

Stock holders... who might they be?

How about 40% of all Americans and a LARGE portion of them are SENIORS who are either retired or who want to retire but can’t because of the bath they took in the stock market in 2008.

So you think that all the news tickers keep the stock prices rolling throughout the day for the benefit of a few?

I firmly believe that prices will not drop to rock bottom. Businesses will roll some of that back into the company in order to expand (jobs) and some of it will be kept in the form of profits to the benefit of their stockholders.

But competition will drive prices down a lot. If a company doesn’t, a competitor will undercut them. They will lose business.

That’s not good for the bottom line.

[flaglady47]

“If you read that link you will see how prices of goods and services will come down due to less taxes and the free market.”

Oh yeah, like the sellers of goods are really going to lower the prices of those goods. Not.

[Future Useless Eater]

Much like what the government does with unemployment statistics, the following chart represents a 4-poll "rolling average" for the latest 20 polls listed at RealClearPolitics.com (plus YouGov).

I also weighted the polls by their size. For example, a poll with a survey size of 1000 was weighted proportionately heavier than an 324 survey size.

Weighted 4-Poll Rolling Averages of the latest 20 Polls listed at RCP [as of Oct 14]
plus the "YouGov" poll inserted chronologically (next to last)

Example Methodology		Single Poll Totals			4-Poll Totals			4-Poll Weighted Rolling Average Percentages
	When Taken	Sample	Romney	Cain	Sample	Romney	Cain	Romney	Cain
Rasmussen Reports	10/12-10/12	1000 LV	290	290	2820	654	856	23.2%	30.4%
YouGov	10/8-10/11	1000 A	180	330	2230	458	644	20.5%	28.9%
PPP (D)	10/7-10/10	484 LV	106	145	1621	372	376	22.9%	23.2%
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl	10/6-10/10	336 RV	77	91	2161	470	416	21.8%	19.2%
Reuters/Ipsos	10/6-10/10	410 A	94	78	2475	555	435	22.4%	17.6%
WP/Bloomberg/PSRAI	10/6-10/9	391 A	94	63	2389	516	412	21.6%	17.3%
Gallup	10/3-10/7	1064 A	205	184	2925	626	507	21.4%	17.4%
ABC News/Wash Post	9/29-10/2	650* RV	163	111	2777	614	437	22.1%	15.7%
CBS News	9/28-10/2	324 RV	55	55	2490	535	388	21.5%	15.6%
Quinnipiac	9/27-10/3	927 RV	204	158	2613	574	364	22.0%	13.9%
Pew Research	9/22-10/4	876 RV	193	114	2686	610	277	22.7%	10.3%
FOX News	9/25-9/27	363 RV	83	62	2249	523	185	23.2%	8.2%
CNN/Opinion Research	9/23-9/25	447 A	94	31	2203	509	139	23.1%	6.3%
Rasmussen Reports	9/19-9/19	1000 LV	240	70	2503	535	145	21.4%	5.8%
USA Today/Gallup	9/15-9/18	439 RV	105	22	2048	415	97	20.2%	4.7%
McClatchy/Marist	9/13-9/14	317 RV	70	16	2055	389	97	19.0%	4.7%
CBS News/NY Times	9/10-9/15	747 RV	120	37	2238	410	121	18.3%	5.4%
Bloomberg	9/9-9/12	545 RV	120	22	2141	440	104	20.5%	4.8%
CNN/Opinion Research	9/9-9/11	446 A	80	22	245	82	477	---	---
PPP (D)	9/8-9/11	500 LV	90	40	167	60	344	---	---
ABC News/Wash Post	8/29-9/1	650* RV	150	20	76	20	189	---	---

[casinva]

What rewards for working are involved in these kinds of federally-run entitlements for non-working and poor families in urban minority neighborhoods?

Here Marie, meet your 9% national sales tax at work when federal enterprise and empowerment zones are included into the 999 plan.

---

http://www.mitchellmoss.com/articles/power.html

During the 1980s, liberals latched onto the enterprise zone concept. They discovered that it offered a way to channel money into impoverished urban communities, subverting the rationale for the enterprise zone by expanding, rather than reducing, government involvement.

(snip)

In response to the Los Angeles riots of 1992, there was a burst of public support for federal assistance to cities, and during the summer of 1992 proposals for enterprise zone legislation surfaced in Congress once again, among Republicans and Democrats alike. But it was not until both the White House and the Congress were in Democratic hands that the concept of the enterprise zone - albeit modified and renamed by the new Democratic administration as an empowerment zone - was brought to life as part of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.

(snip)

Congressman Charles Rangel of Harlem, then the third-ranking Democrat on the House Ways and Means Committee, was largely responsible for inserting the empowerment zone proposal into the 1993 act, which combined tax hikes for the rich with tax credits for the working poor. Before that. President Clinton had given up on any large-scale public investment program, after failing to pass an economic stimulus package that would have channeled federal money into communities acre’s the country. But Rangel pushed hard to authorize tax credits and funds for empowerment zones in the budget reconciliation act, which was subject to a single up-or-down congressional vote. Once the money was authorized, it took the joint efforts of New Jersey Senator Bill Bradley and Congressman Rangel actually to appropriate funds for the empowerment zone program in the appropriation bill for the U.S. Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education for fiscal year 1995.

(snip)

Although Congress assigned responsibility for formulating the guidelines and administering the empowerment zone program to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, it appropriated the funds for the zones under Title XX of the Social Security Act, which provides block grants to the states for social services.

(snip)

Thanks largely to Rangel, the empowerment zone has emerged as the only initiative by the Clinton administration with an explicitly urban focus

(snip)

Although the empowerment zone program provided incentives for private investment, it also gave the Clinton administration a new framework for social service spending, not just on job training or welfare-to-work programs but also, under Title XX of the Social Security Act, on emergency and transitional homeless shelters or drug-and alcohol-abuse programs in big cities.

(snip)

After a national competition that attracted hundreds of applicants. New York was awarded an empowerment zone by President Clinton in December 1994, an outcome that many felt was preordained given Congressman Rangel’s strategic role in pushing the empowerment zone into law. The other cities to be awarded zones were Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, and Philadelphia. Although Cleveland and Los Angeles did not get empowerment zones, HUD - in a rare display of bureaucratic creativity - invented a consolation prize for those cities, the “supplemental empowerment zone,” consisting of block grants without the tax credits.

(snip)

The Harlem portion of the plan is a remarkable mix of programs to serve local needs for day care, education, social services, and health care, combined with a few large-scale physical development projects, like a new CUNY community college at the Washburn Wire Factory, that will not create private-sector jobs or attract private investment. For example, the proposal envisions a computerized drug referral system, security improvements in public housing, child-care program upgrades, “family preservation, development, and intergenerational programs,” a community health center, and a cadre of community empowerment zone organizers to assist residents in gaining access to empowerment zone - and other government - programs. The proposal also envisions a “Medicaid Entitlement Zone” that seeks to make every resident of the zone eligible for Medicaid. The proposal earmarks 23 percent of the federal empowerment zone funds for children and youth programs, 12 percent for health and substance-abuse programs, 6 percent for other social services, and 17 percent for local administration of the program - 58 percent of the total.

(snip)

Almost no one in the press or in public office has been willing to question the logic of New York’s empowerment zone plan. It went unchallenged when Vice President Al Core and other Democratic politicians gathered with empowerment zone leaders from around the country at a Columbia University conference in March. The conference resembled a pep rally for Rangel and the empowerment zone. Little wonder: many of those in attendance were from nonprofit organizations that stand to benefit handsomely from the infusion of federal funds.

[BagCamAddict]

Of course it is. As I stated.

My point is that none of us knows how it will really play out, because it is a talking point, not a Bill in Washington. We don’t know how it will be written, enacted, modified, etc.

So it is possible — possible — that it is not as bad as all the nay-sayers want to think it is. The glass is always half-empty with some people. I’m just asking everyone to keep an open mind that it MIGHT not be as bad as they think.

It might be worse. It might be better. We simply, truly, do not have enough information to know one way or the other.

[Watchdog85]

There is this little thing call the free market and competition. If I sell a car for 10K and you sell the same car for 15K, who will people buy from?

[South40]

Cain's consolidated his position, and will now likely sweep the south.
Romney's has got to be crying by now

Cain will definitely sweep the south -- assuming, of course, he doesn't take the PerryBot's advice and drop out. lol!

Next target, Mitt Romney!

[onona]

Is she really pushing 300 ??

[Marie]

“that’s a big freaking assumption and there is nothing to suggest that it is a safe assumption”

There is something to suggest it... it’s called the free market and competition.

See, I am a capitalist. I believe in those things because historically they’ve been proven true.

As does ever other conservative on the planet.

[Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!]

Cain took Perry’s command and lead.America wants real change, not just a semi gov. fix until the next cycle of when idiots are dumb enough to vote in tyranny again in the commiecrats.Romney is political toast.Barbour is saying Cain will sweep the south he is the new man accepted by the GOP-as no one wants they’re Romney. screw ObameyCare.America wants DC stopped in the huge ponzi scheme of slush funds and senators and congress living like Trump and spending our money on garbage.

[Fred]

OMG....freepers are scaring me on basic math and taxes....it appears that many have no real experience with them other then a friggin W2..

9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!9-9-9 IS NOT A VAT TAX!!!

http://www.nerds4cain.com/forums/discussion/106/does-everyone-understand-the-difference-between-a-vat-and-a-retail-sales-taxs

Please, I beg all of you to read this blog on 9-9-9....