Cain's Tax Mutiny. New national sales tax on top of the income tax is a political killer

Wall Street Journal ^ | Oct 7, 2011 | WSJ Editorial

[Clairity]

The real political defect of the Cain plan is that it imposes a new national sales tax while maintaining the income tax. Mr. Cain's rates are seductively low, but the current income tax was introduced in 1913 with a top rate of 7% amid promises that it would never exceed 10%. By 1918 the top rate was 77%.

Part of Mr. Cain's appeal is his willingness to challenge political convention, and he certainly has with his tax proposal. Voters like that he isn't a lifetime politician but a successful business owner who has met a payroll and created jobs. But his endorsement of a sales tax on top of the income tax is a political gamble that would eventually finance an even larger entitlement state. Better to reform the devil we know—the income tax—than to introduce another devil and end up with ever-rising rates of both.

[not2worry]

I believe the 999 tax structure is a stepping stone to the Fair Tax, if I understand the Plan correctly.

We got to have a starting point for tax reform. No one else has even touched this subject on the campaign trail.

I respect Cain in that it has been his platform from the get-go - not something he whipped up (ala Santorum) after he tested the wind.

[Hugin]

So, you believe tax and spend politicians, the kind who’ve never seen a tax they didn’t like or a dollar they didn’t want to spend, are going to just up and legislate away the income tax????

Do you think the politicians in 3/4 of the state legislatures will ever do so while the current sytsem is in place?

What I think is that it would be impossible to pass it without already having the alternetive in place. But once the income tax is gone and a sales tax is in place, getting an amendment passed would be much easier. I also think once people realize how much easier life is without having to keep track and report all their financial activty to the IRS, and the IRS is out of business, it would be politicl suicide to vote to bring it back.

[DTxAg]

Like I said, you pay a sales tax everytime you buy gas. There’s nothing that prevents them from applying that to everything, or most things.

But wouldn't Congress need to impose the excise tax on each class of item separately? A 9% tax on food items, a 9% tax on vehicles, a 9% tax on computing equipment, etc.?

[teenyelliott]

Half the people don't pay any federal INCOME TAX because of the earned income tax credit. That doesn't mean they don't pay taxes. They pay payroll tax, federal excise taxes, property taxes (eithr directly or factored into the rent), corporate sale tax (as part of the cost of goods), etc. Income tax is only one of many taxes. There is a huge difference.

Okay I did say they pay nothing and you are correct, that is untrue for the most part, as you point out. What I meant (can I clarify without being a backstabbing flipflopping lying Romney lover?????? ;), is that illegals and criminals and those who currently pay nothing in income tax will pay the same rate across the board as you and I do.

The other thing that I like about 999 is it gives you control, same as the Fair Tax. Don't want to pay the 9% sales tax? Consume less, recycle, barter, grow a garden, etc. I like that.

Now, as to what percentage do not pay payroll taxes because they don't have a "paper" job or any job at all, I don't know.

What percentage don't own vehicles or don't drive or take public transportation, I don't know.

What percentage own property and pay property taxes, I don't know.

What I do know is something has got to give, and at least this plan puts everyone in the same boat.

[not2worry]

Would you vote for Rush Limbaugh?

[teenyelliott]

I disagree with you; most people are very, very stupid.

[raygun]

Individual Income Tax (1913-2002)
	personal exmptions			lowest bracket		highest bracket
Year	Single	Married	Dependents	Low (%)	Income $ (low)	High %	Income $ (high)
1913	$3,000	$4,000	N/A	1.000	$20,000	7.000	$500,000
1914	$3,000	$4,000	N/A	1.000	$20,000	7.000	$500,000
1915	$3,000	$4,000	N/A	1.000	$20,000	7.000	$500,000
1916	$3,000	$4,000	N/A	2.000	$20,000	15.000	$2,000,000
1917	$1,000	$2,000	$200	2.000	$2,000	67.000	$2,000,000
1918	$1,000	$2,000	$200	6.000	$4,000	77.000	$1,000,000
1919	$1,000	$2,000	$200	4.000	$4,000	73.000	$1,000,000
1920	$1,000	$2,000	$200	4.000	$4,000	73.000	$1,000,000
1921	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	73.000	$1,000,000
1922	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	58.000	$200,000
1923	$1,000	$2,500	$400	3.000	$4,000	43.500	$200,000
1924	$1,000	$2,500	$400	1.500	$4,000	46.000	$500,000
1925	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1926	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1927	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1928	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1929	$1,500	$3,500	$400	0.375	$4,000	24.000	$100,000
1930	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1931	$1,500	$3,500	$400	1.125	$4,000	25.000	$100,000
1932	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	63.000	$1,000,000
1933	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	63.000	$1,000,000
1934	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	63.000	$1,000,000
1935	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	63.000	$1,000,000
1936	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	79.000	$5,000,000
1937	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	79.000	$5,000,000
1938	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	79.000	$5,000,000
1939	$1,000	$2,500	$400	4.000	$4,000	79.000	$5,000,000
1940		$800	$2,000	4.400	$2,000	81.100	$5,000,000
1941		$750	$1,500	10.000	$2,000	81.000	$5,000,000
1942		$500	$1,200	19.000	$2,000	88.000	$5,000,000
1943		$500	$1,200	19.000	$2,000	88.000	$200,000
1944		$500	$1,000	23.000	$2,000	94.000	$200,000
1945		$500	$1,000	23.000	$2,000	94.000	$200,000
1946		$500	$1,000	19.000	$2,000	94.000	$200,000
1947		$500	$1,000	19.000	$2,000	86.450	$200,000
1948		$600	$1,200	16.600	$4,000	86.450	$400,000
1949		$600	$1,200	16.600	$4,000	82.130	$400,000
1950		$600	$1,200	17.400	$4,000	82.130	$400,000
1951		$600	$1,200	20.400	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1952		$600	$1,200	22.200	$4,000	92.000	$400,000
1953		$600	$1,200	23.200	$4,000	92.000	$400,000
1954		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1955		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1956		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1957		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1958		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1959		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1960		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1961		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1962		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1963		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	91.000	$400,000
1964		$600	$1,200	20.000	$4,000	77.000	$400,000
1965		$600	$1,200	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1966		$600	$1,200	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1967		$600	$1,200	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1968		$600	$1,200	14.000	$1,000	75.250	$200,000
1969		$600	$1,200	14.000	$1,000	77.000	$200,000
1970		$625	$1,250	14.000	$1,000	71.750	$200,000
1971		$675	$1,350	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1972		$750	$1,500	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1973		$750	$1,500	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1974		$750	$1,500	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1975		$750	$1,500	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1976		$750	$1,500	14.000	$1,000	70.000	$200,000
1977		$750	$1,500	14.000	$3,200	70.000	$200,000
1978		$750	$1,500	14.000	$3,200	70.000	$203,200
1979	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	14.000	$3,400	70.000	$215,400
1980	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	14.000	$3,400	70.000	$215,400
1981	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	13.825	$3,400	69.125	$215,400
1982	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	12.000	$3,400	50.000	$85,600
1983	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	11.000	$3,400	50.000	$109,400
1984	$1,000	$2,000	$1,000	11.000	$3,400	50.000	$162,400
1985	$1,040	$2,080	$1,040	11.000	$3,540	50.000	$169,020
1986	$1,080	$2,160	$1,080	11.000	$3,670	50.000	$175,250
1987	$1,900	$3,800	$1,900	11.000	$3,000	38.500	$90,000
1988	$1,950	$3,900	$1,950	15.000	$29,750	28.000	$29,750
1989	$2,000	$4,000	$2,000	15.000	$30,950	28.000	$30,950
1990	$2,050	$4,100	$2,050	15.000	$32,450	28.000	$32,450
1991	$2,150	$4,300	$2,150	15.000	$34,000	31.000	$82,150
1992	$2,300	$4,600	$2,300	15.000	$35,800	31.000	$86,500
1993	$2,350	$4,700	$2,350	15.000	$36,900	39.600	$89,150
1994	$2,450	$4,900	$2,450	15.000	$38,000	39.600	$250,000
1995	$2,500	$5,000	$2,500	15.000	$39,000	39.600	$256,500
1996	$2,550	$5,100	$2,550	15.000	$40,100	39.600	$263,750
1997	$2,650	$5,300	$2,650	15.000	$41,200	39.600	$271,050
1998	$2,700	$5,400	$2,700	15.000	$42,350	39.600	$278,450
1999	$2,750	$5,500	$2,750	15.000	$43,050	39.600	$283,150
2000	$2,800	$5,600	$2,800	15.000	$43,850	39.600	$288,350
2001	$2,900	$5,800	$2,900	10.000	$12,000	39.100	$297,350
2002	$3,000	$6,000	$3,000	10.000	$12,000	38.600	$307,050

[JCG]

The only way to repeal the income tax is with a constitutional amendment.

The Congress could drop the income tax tomorrow with just a vote if they wanted to. They have the power to tax and also the power to "untax."

----

Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it.
www.AnySoldier.com
(An entirely free service)

[xzins]

I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago. Still fun with the grandkids, but I know better.

[Hugin]

But wouldn't Congress need to impose the excise tax on each class of item separately? A 9% tax on food items, a 9% tax on vehicles, a 9% tax on computing equipment, etc.?

I don't see why. But even if they did, the list would be a lot shorter than the current tax code.

[familyop]

Socialist government employees and others dependent on government for income love the 999 plan for new taxes and will push hard to elect Cain and make it law. The rest of us will starve the beast, regardless of its evil tax schemes.

No new taxes! No sales! Become more self-sufficient, and enjoy the slide to small government.

[Scotsman will be Free]

Yes to question #1. 9% income tax with a 9% sales tax.

[sergeantdave]

“Yes to question #1. 9% income tax with a 9% sales tax.”

Thank you. Appreciate your answer, FRiend.

[JCG]

I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago. Still fun with the grandkids, but I know better.

Golly, Christmas is coming earlier every year. I was just now thinking of pumpkins and goblins and here comes Santa Claus.

Thank you for your service to the nation.

----

Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it.
www.AnySoldier.com
(An entirely free service)

[Reagan Man]

Problem is, you're dead wrong.

General George Washington was the commander-in-chief of the Continental Army of the USA during the Revolutionary War. Like Eisenhower, who was Supreme Allied Commander in WWII, Washington had far reaching executive experience and was a politician by default when he became President.

Get serious, man! Herman Cain should never be compared with someone like Washington or Eisenhower in that regard.

[teenyelliott]

And I forgot to add that those people will vote democrap anyway.

[DTxAg]

But even if they did, the list would be a lot shorter than the current tax code.

Except if they do have to split it up, it allows the fed gov to start with their social engineering again. 50% excise tax on SUVs, 0% excise tax on hybrids. 50% tax on Hondas and Toyotas and Fords, 0% tax on GMs and Chryslers. Hundreds of ways to social engineer.

[Lauren BaRecall]

Example: how much would I have to pay for a tank of oil with state, city and fed sales tax, plus NY is a cap and trade state? Plus several tanks during the winter? It would be exorbitant! And this is just one item.

I also have to pay state AND city income tax, not to mention property taxes. Not all states are equal taxwise, and with Cain’s plan, this is not taken into consideration.

Have either fed income taxes or sales taxes. Not both!

[Clairity]

“I am sure I’ve eard Mr. Cain say aat least twice there would e no more income tax!”

He says “eventually” the income tax will be eliminated, but right now he is pushing the 9-9-9 plan, which preserves income tax and ADDS a national sales tax. Why doesn’t he want to eliminate the income tax NOW?

The “eventual” elimination is no different, than when Obama wants to raise taxes NOW and “eventually” cut spending — as in tomorrow, that never comes.

[xzins]

Thank you for your kind words, JCG.

To have a Congress willing to not have an income tax is to have a Congress willing to repeal the income tax.

They are the same thing. Why would Congress get rid of the income tax and then be unwilling to change the amendment?

You get where I’m going with this?