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To: Count of Monte Logan
No religion that denies the Book of Mormon can be true. Jesus Christ brought forth this book.

On an agreement with a friend, my wife read the BoM, and read much of it aloud to me. I have to tell you that I have NEVER heard such a contrived effort, or such a feeble attempt at imitating Elizabethan English except in the company of a band of half-drunk Renaissance Faire visitors. About the only places the Book of Mormon sounds authentic at all, are where portions are lifted almost verbatim from the King James Bible.

The author REALLY would have been FAR MORE convincing had he stuck to the American English of his own era. As it is, the whole thing just comes off as a sham.

You are rejecting something you don’t understand.

If there is any misunderstanding, at all, I'd lay the blame squarely on the aforementioned linguistic failure. Where the text is decipherable, it is clearly hogwash; it conflicts with the earlier revelations (old and new testaments) in fundamental, irreconcilable ways. Either the Bible is true or the Book of Mormon is true; BOTH cannot be true, and based on the farcical nature of the language used in the BoM, and with eternal life and death on the line, I'll side with the Bible.

51 posted on 10/03/2011 1:20:01 AM PDT by HKMk23 (YHVH NEVER PLAYS DEFENSE)
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To: HKMk23; Count of Monte Logan; restornu; 1010RD
No religion that denies the Book of Mormon can be true. Jesus Christ brought forth this book. [Count of Monte Logan]

On an agreement with a friend, my wife read the BoM, and read much of it aloud to me. I have to tell you that I have NEVER heard such a contrived effort, or such a feeble attempt at imitating Elizabethan English except in the company of a band of half-drunk Renaissance Faire visitors. About the only places the Book of Mormon sounds authentic at all, are where portions are lifted almost verbatim from the King James Bible. The author REALLY would have been FAR MORE convincing had he stuck to the American English of his own era. As it is, the whole thing just comes off as a sham. [HKMk23]

Mormons and seekers of the truth...what HKMk23 says is true and I've got three examples you can study on your own to determine once and for all whether Joseph Smith plagiarized some of his content direct from other sources than supposed "gold plates."

Some times it got Smith into trouble by revealing his true source -- that it wasn't "gold plates," after all, that he was "translating."

Example #1: 2 Nephi 23 of the Book of Mormon is a word-for-word theft of Isaiah 13 [and please note...that the italicized words of Isaiah 13, KJ Version during Joseph Smith's day, were not in the original Hebrew from which the KJV was translated...So if they weren't in the Hebrew, how did Nephi get them? Did he reach into the future of 1611 in the UK, and superimpose them into golden plates between 559 and 545 BC?]

Example #2 Per http://www.undergroundnotes.com/Smithbook.pdf -- In the "Mosiah" chapter fourteen in the Book of Mormon, Isaiah chapter fifty-three is copied word for word, including the italicized words that the King James translators added for clarity! There are sixteen italicized words from the King James Bible in "Mosiah" fourteen. The list of italicized words are
and (three times),
there is,
our,
was (twice),
he was,
was any,
his (twice),
a portion (once).
How did these italicized words from a 1611 translation get into a document that was supposedly written before the time of Christ? The answer is obvious: Smith copied them when plagiarizing the King James translation of the prophet Isaiah.

Example #3: Finally, compare 1 Nephi 22:20 in the Book of Mormon with Acts 3:22:

Acts 3:22, as cited by the Kings James Translators in 1611 using common 17th-century language of the era to translate something from over 1500 years prior:

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you (Acts 3:22)

Now compare that to 1 Nephi 22:20, as cited by Joseph Smith in 1830 using common 1611 language to "translate" something supposedly originally said 2400 years earlier -- and 600+ years PRIOR to Peter's quotation.

The issue is not the paraphrases of the first 7 words of Acts 3:22 or the first 19 words of 1 Nephi 22:20...It's what follows: Acts 3:22: "A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you...like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you"
...Compared & Contrasted to...
1 Nephi 22:20: "A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you"

Except for "unto your brethren" midway between the above two phrases in Acts 3:22, 'tis the exact SAME King James language "paraphrase," even though the NT was in Greek and the Book of Mormon supposedly wasn't -- and even though 19th century Americans were closer to 1950s American than 1611 speech wise!

Please note, Mormons, that when you "paraphrase" someone you do exactly that -- you paraphrase. You don't quote someone word for word for 27 exact King James English words within two phrases -- putting the exact same semi-colon at the exact same spot...and you certainly don't quote exactly somebody supposedly speaking over 600 years in the future of your statement in a historical colloquialism from 200 years behind you in its exact translation. (Please also check Dt. 18:15, 18 and you'll see that indeed BOTH Acts 3:22 and 1 Nephi 22:20 are EACH paraphrases of those verses).

Bottom line: The apostle Peter paraphrased Moses in his original language; and the Book of Mormon writer -- IF it was a historical doc -- could also paraphrase Moses in his own language within a separate venue. (No concern in and of itself). It's only when you compare the additional generations of paraphrasing and translating that it becomes quite obvious where Smith got his source for 1 Nephi 22:20.

Illustration: If one of your 2010 FR posts was published in the year 3800 in a publication -- and they used an exact version of that quotation as it appeared in a British cockney-slang or Scottish colloquial vocab-adapted publication as published in the year 3575 -- I don't think future FReepers would tell us with a straight face that the author of the year 3800 publication "translated" the original Freeper source from gold-plated Freeper documents written in the year 2010...with his face stuck in a hat.

61 posted on 10/03/2011 8:37:11 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: HKMk23

You remind me of the guy who read parts of the Bible and went around saying it is a silly work of fiction and only idiots would buy into it. Nothing but a crutch for simple-minded people to lean on. A bunch of morons.

Blah blah blah

They says the same stuff about The Book of Mormon and members of my Church. We’re used to it. It only serves to strengthen our testimonies in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and in our Church. Amen.


96 posted on 10/06/2011 10:30:50 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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