A Hurricane of Hype

Minneapolis StarTribune ^

[kelsiejackson]

It's a hurricane, not Armageddon. Good grief. A Category 1 storm, you'd think "Irene" was the worst storm America has ever endured.

[GOYAKLA]

Things one may be interested in, History. Note photos @ http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mfl/?n=miamihurricane1926
and
http://www.hurricanecity.com/city/miami.htm

Note links at last link.
My parents and M/Grandmother went through the 1926 one in “MIAMA”
This post is not meant to be argumentative only factual and informative..

[bushpilot1]

Thanks for the update..you were correct....they were wrong.

Hurricane Katrina vet Mississippi Gulf Coast..and others.

[mojitojoe]

You evaded the question that referred to your statement. You said Florida had no terrain, I asked you to define terrain and you go into some long, drawn out lesson on the terrain of PA and VT. I asked you to define terrain and tell me why you said FL has NO TERRAIN. Easy question, you said it, why can’t you please explain it.

Oh, and if you believe that Irene was a cat 1 while in NJ, show me any winds in NJ that reached CAT1 intensity. You just keep taking the word of NOAA, who basically already admitted it was not as strong as they thought which I find very odd. They are often wrong on the track, but usually fairly accurate on the intensity. Everything in those satellite loops showed a rapidly diminishing storm and the aftermath validates that.

Cat 1:
74–95 mph SUSTAINED, NOT GUSTS
Storm surge 4–5 ft
Central pressure 28.94 inHg 980 mbar
Potential damage No real damage to building structures. Damage primarily to unanchored mobile homes, shrubbery, and trees. Also, some coastal flooding and minor pier damage.

I’m not hyperventilating and by BP is just fine, always has been. YOU were the one hyperventilating and going ballistic when anyone rained on your catastrophic hurricane theory.

Don’t put all your faith in NHC and NOAA, trust me on this one. You asked on one of your posts if I had ever even seen or been through a hurricane. Let me put it this way, so many that I can’t even recall their names and had to go back and look at the dates on my photos to even determine how many. Of course I remember the really bad ones, but the others that just flooded our sun room, destroyed the landscaping, pushed about a ton of seaweed up against the back of my house and knocked the fences down, don’t even recall their names unless I look. Some of the ones that just required me to put the boat in dry dock and where water came up to the back door, but not in and didn’t do much damage, I didn’t even take photos. Sometimes we evacuate and still get them at the location we evacuated to.

I realize in PA this was probably a big deal, what you don’t realize is that most FLoridians, especially ones on the coastal areas live with this every single year from June-November, never knowing if at the end of that season your property will still be standing. Every morning when I get up the first thing I do is check the satellite photos from August-October to see if any big ones have rolled off the coast. I watch it several times a day, every day. Had Irene been headed here and looked like it did on the satellite when it first hit NC, I would have been thrilled because I would have known it would not be that bad. Water in my house? Probably if it hit at high tide and slowed down. Moving fast at low tide, probably not. Tides are insanely high today, if it had hit here today at high tide, I would not be a happy camper and it would have flooded my yard and sun room, IF it was really a strong Cat1 and maybe even if it was a tropical storm.

Also remember in the beginning, Irene was a Cat3 and all the computer models had it heading for FL a week ago. I won’t lie, when the computer models showed it would go North, I was thrilled. You take one for a change, we have more than our fair share and so does Texas and the Gulf coast, also NC.

Irene is gone, the media has been busted for ridiculous hype, NOAA admits is screwed up, they didn’t really say why they screwed up but they did, Obummer didn’t get to play the hero but he will get to slip his blue states some money and buy some more votes and life moves on.

TD12 just rolled off the African Coast, headed this way. Will it fizzle or will it be the big one? Where will this one go? Only time will tell.

[mojitojoe]

TD12 just moved off the African Coast headed toward us. :( It’s along way out, maybe it will self destruct. I’m a little more concerned than usual because Spet. is the month we worry about the most and we are already up to K. Of course we all know it only takes one, but still, the more there are the better the odds we might get one.

How did you fare in Katrina? Did you sustain a lot of damage? Katrina was just horrible. All that water being pushed up into the gulf... bad news. I think ever since Katrina everyone is a little more spooked. I know I am. We have really high tides today and for a few minutes some waves were splashing onto my dock and I was thinking, if we even had a TD today and it came up from the S, SW or SE, we would have water knocking at the back door. Also our windows are are almost ceiling to floor, about 18” from the floor all across the back of the house. They were there when we bought the house, pretty for viewing the ocean, not so great if there is a storm surge.

[mojitojoe]

Thank you for the link, lots of great info. I saved it as a word doc. I wish they had listed TD’s too because a strong TD will destroy boats in a marina and can still cause flooding and damage. How did your family fare in the 1928 storm? 145MPH ....not one to mess around with.

There was a storm and I cannot recall which one it was or even what year. It was probably around 2004-2007 and it was forecast to move into the Gulf and hit land somewhere around the Tampa Bay area so we didn’t have the boat pulled out. We woke up to a lot of wind, rain and waves splashing over the seawall. It was too windy to take the boat to the Marina(we live right on the open Atlantic) and that night was hell. We spent all night trying to keep the boat away from the dock and on the lift. The water rose and with the waves it was trying to float the boat off of the lift.

It didn’t hit here but drastically changed course between the time we went to bed and woke up.

Not a fun night and NOAA’s excuse.... oops. Haven’t been happy with NOAA ever since. Even if it looks like we might get TD winds, we pull the boat out now and we usually do that at least once a year. Last year, we didn’t do it once, this year, none so far, knock on wood.

[bushpilot1]

http://www.destinyplantation.com/

[bushpilot1]

Six homes survived..

[mojitojoe]

I agree, it was nonsense and I really think O was disappointed it wasn’t a catastrophic storm that he could manipulate to help is increasingly sinking poll numbers.

I wonder if a big one hit Florida if we would see 24 hour coverage like that. I can give you that answer now, no. I’ve watched many times and had o count on constant coverage from local channels only.

[mojitojoe]

What a beautiful place to live bushpilot.

[dirtboy]

There is a perfect historical example of what I am talking about - Agnes

Agnes actually hit the Florida Panhandle as a Cat 1 hurricane. No one remembers or cares about that.

Agnes moved up through North Carolina, went back out into the Atlantic, went back up to a middling tropical storm, and then moved inland over PA and upstate New York.

And then all hell broke loose - from the flooding, accentuated by the mountains (i.e. terrain) that you don't have in Florida to amply the runoff by making it gather much faster than in a flat state like Florida.

And we also get fronts up here in the summer that you don't have in the summer in Florida to amplify the rainfall.

So spare me the condescention about how puny our tropical weather is. Agnes was the first storm that did not reach major hurricane strength to have its name retired by the NHC.

And ask the people of Vermont how inconsequential Irene was to them. Something I was warning about - inland freshwater flooding - even as the naysayers were stupidly declaring Irene to be a non-event before it was even fully over.

And regarding the lack of strong winds at the surface, the NHC was estimating the strength of the hurricane at the surface from flight-level winds and barometric pressure - like they always do. But for some reason (and thankfully so), the worst of the flight-level winds never made it down to the surface.

The NHC has a lot of data for this storm, they can spend the off-season studying it and incorporating it into their models and forecasting and maybe do a better job if a storm like Irene happens again in the future.

However, the morons at the Weather Channel and other media outlets will remain morons, but that was a given before and after the storm. Likewise, the naysayers will probably do the same. Funny how those on both extremes of this story are that way.

[mojitojoe]

And then all hell broke loose - from the flooding, accentuated by the mountains (i.e. terrain) that you don’t have in Florida to amply the runoff by making it gather much faster than in a flat state like Florida
______________________
I almost didn’t respond to this but after I finished about 2 minutes of side splitting laughter as my wife and 2 friends viewed you post, I decided to just reply with this:

STORM SURGE, something you will never have. Try seeing a wall of water 10’ high heading for you. Stop whining. I doubt Katrina victims would care about your flooding up there, seriously.

[dirtboy]

STORM SURGE, something you will never have. Try seeing a wall of water 10’ high heading for you. Stop whining. I doubt Katrina victims would care about your flooding up there, seriously.

You truly are an ass****. I'm sorry, that is the only way to describe you. Agnes was the costliest hurricane in American history up to that point - worse than Hazel or other such storms. 10 feet of storm surge? Try 15 feet over flood stage of a stream in the mountains.

Killed over 100 persons.

So stuff it.

[mojitojoe]

If this were paper, scissors rock , storm surge covers rain water flooding in tropical systems. There is a whole other debate in this issue, and that is when you consider the costliest, what is the real reason that such tiny storms, with less flooding end up being so costly in the NE. You think it might be because Southerners know how to do things on their own and after a storm aren’t standing around with the hand, boohooing and waiting on the gubmint to come help them? Your NE storms cat 1’s aren’t very deadly but they sure do cost a lot.

Agnes is pretty far down on the list pal:

Deadliest:

1. Great Galveston Hurricane (TX) 1900 4 8000
2. FL (Lake Okeechobee) 1928 2500
3. Katrina (LA/MS/FL/GA/AL) 2005 3 1200
4. Cheniere Caminanda (LA) 1893 4 1400
5. Sea Islands (SC/GA) 1893 3 1-2000
6. GA/SC 700
7. Audrey (SW LA/N TX) 1957 4 416
8. Great Labor Day Hurricane (FL Keys) 1935 5 408
9. Last Island (LA) 1856 4 400
10. Miami Hurricane 1926 4 372
11. LA (Grand Isle) 1909 4 350
12. FL (Keys)/S. TX 1919 4 287#
13.. LA (New Orleans) 1915 4 275
13. TX (Galveston) 1915 4 275
15. Camille (MS/LA) 1969 5 256
15.. New England 1938 3* 256
17. Diane (NE U.S.) 1955 1 184
18. GA, SC, NC 1898 4 179
19. TX 1875 3 176
20. SE FL 1906 2 164
21. Indianola (TX) 1886 4 150
22. MS/AL/Pensacola 1906 3 134
23. FL, GA, SC 1896 3 130
24. Agnes (NE U.S.) 1972 1 122
25. Hazel (SC/NC) 1954 4* 95
26. Betsy (SE FL/SE LA) 1965 3 75
27. Great Atlantic Hurricane 1944 3* 64@
28. Carol (NE U.S.) 1954 3* 60
29. Floyd (NC) 1999 4 56
30. NC

COSTLIEST:

1. Katrina (LA/MS/AL/SE FL) 2005 3 $105,840,000,000
2. Andrew (SE FL/SE LA) 1992 5 $45,561,000,000
3. Ike (TX/LA/MS) 2008 2 $27,790,000,000
4. Wilma (FL) 2005 3 $20,587,000,000
5. Ivan (FL/AL) 2004 3 $19,832,000,000
6. Charley (FL) 2004 4 $15,820,000,000
7. Hugo (SC) 1989 4 $9,739,820,675
8. Rita (LA/TX) 2005 3 $11,797,000,000
9. Agnes (NE U.S.) 1972 1 $11,760,000,000
10. Betsy (FL/LA) 1965 3 $11,227,000,000
11. Allison (TX/LA) 2001 T.S. $10,998,000,000
12. Frances (FL) 2004 2 $10,018,000,000
13. Camille (MS/AL) 1969 5 $9,282,000,000
14. Floyd (NC) 1999 4 $9,225,000,000
15. Jeanne (FL) 2004 3 $8,072,000,000
16. Opal (NW FL/AL) 1995 3 $7,729,000,000
17. Diane (NE U.S.) 1955 1 $7,408,000,000
18. Frederic (AL/MS) 1979 3 $6,571,000,000
19. New England 1938 3 $6,325,000,000
20. Fran (NC) 1996 3 $6,140,000,000
21. Isabel (NC/VA/MD) 2003 2 $6,112,000,000
22. Celia (S TX) 1970 3 $5,918,000,000
23. Great Atlantic Hurricane 1944 3 $5,706,000,000
24. Alicia (N TX) 1983 3 $4,569,000,000
25. Gustav (LA) 2008 2 $4,347,000,000
26. Carol (NE U.S.) 1954 3 $4,175,000,000
27. Georges (PR/MS) 1998 5 $3,860,000,000
28. Juan (LA) 1985 1 $3,238,000,000
29. Donna (FL/Eastern U.S.) 1960 4 $3,215,000,000
30. Iniki (HI) 1992 4 $3,095,000,000
31. Bob (NC and NE U.S.) 1991 2 $2,004,635,258

http://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/damage.asp

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26426796/10_Most_Expensive_Hurricanes_in_US_History?slide=11

I we get a cat3-5, head on down, you can stay here while I evacuate with wife and dogs. But you have to sign a disclaimer that if you have a heart attack we aren’t liable and also, if you have a mess in your pants, you can’t use the washing machine for poopy pants. Oh, and did I mention the Atlantic is 40’ out my back door, but it will be fun, a real experience for a yankee like you.

[mojitojoe]

That’s it? what about yours?

[dirtboy]

Guess what? For all the storm surge damage from major hurricanes prior to Agnes, Agnes still caused more damage than ANY of those storms.

Oh, and you usually get a couple of days warning that a major hurricane is coming in, giving you a chance to evacuate - whereas flash flooding often doesn't give you much of any warning and you can't evacuate. Which is why most hurricane deaths nowadays are from fresh water flooding - look it up.

So once again stuff it, as*****.

[mojitojoe]

You truly are an ass****

_________________________________________________

[mojitojoe]

Try 15 feet over flood stage of a stream in the mountains.

_______________________
Time to evacuate.

[dirtboy]

Except that the water came up fast and cut off your evacuation route. Because the flooding was far above any past record so it wasn’t even expected where you were. Some of the floodwaters from Agnes were ten feet over previous record floods - you know, the ten feet of your previously-mentioned storm surge, on top of major flood levels.

[mojitojoe]

Floods have happened all over the world, some are just caused by heavy rains associated with no tropical system. I don’t know why you are stuck on Agnes. Must have been the only other one that you saw. If you are in a lot of them, you don’t even recall the names unless they were really, really bad. There were only 122 deaths in Agnes. Nobody likes even one death but sheesh, compared to other storms, heat waves, blizzards, earthquakes, 9/11, wars, ....122 is hardly a catastrophic number.

[dirtboy]

Going beyond the fact that you are making yourself out as an even bigger a-hole with each passing post ("only" 129 died?) - well, let's play your stupid game a bit further here. "Only" 26 people died in Andrew - guess it wasn't much of a hurricane, then.

You are basically a jerk who can't admit you were wrong about the dangers mere tropical storms pose to the NE - despite being presented with historical documentation to the contrary. But at least you're consistenly stupid, ignorant and brazen.