Posted on 08/14/2011 2:23:57 PM PDT by Steelfish
Report: Pakistan Gave China Access To 'Stealth' Chopper In bin Laden Raid Chinese military allowed to take photographs, samples of aircraft's 'skin', despite CIA objections, Financial Times reports
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan gave China access to the previously unknown "stealth" helicopter that crashed during the commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden in May despite explicit requests from the CIA not to, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.
The revelation, if confirmed, is likely to further shake the U.S.-Pakistan relationship, which has been improving slightly after hitting its lowest point in decades following the May 2 bin Laden raid.
During the raid, one of two modified Blackhawk helicopters, believed to employ unknown stealth capability, malfunctioned and crashed, forcing the commandos to abandon it.
"The US now has information that Pakistan, particularly the ISI, gave access to the Chinese military to the downed helicopter in Abbottabad," the paper quoted a person "in intelligence circles" as saying.
Pakistan, which enjoys a close relationship with China, allowed Chinese intelligence officials to take pictures of the crashed chopper as well as take samples of its special "skin" that allowed the American raid to evade Pakistani radar, the newspaper reported.
No one from the Pakistani army was available for comment, but the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), Pakistan's top spy agency, denied the report. The paper said Pakistan's top general, chief of army staff Ashfaq Kayani, denied that China had been given access.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
There were rumors of this months ago. I’m glad the press is catching up. /s
and we will still give them money...
We need a COMPLICATED relationship with the fed gov so they can start sending all of us BILLIONS! No, wait, they only TAKE money from us....
Respectfully, you are terribly wrong. That’s why the US has the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. That’s why the Soviet Empire collapsed. That’s why during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Soviet leader Kruschev backed off. That’s why the Chinese dare not invade Taiwan. The list is endless. And of course that’s why when Reagan assumed the Presidency, the mullah’s relented and released US hostages.
xxxReport: Pakistan Gave China Access To ‘Stealth’ Chopper In bin Laden Raidxxx
let’s make some sense here: given their accomplishments in the j-20 which the outside world still find [a mind boggling mystery], what possibly can the chicoms learn from the samples that they may not already know and/or are maybe even far in advance of everyone else? ever thought of that way, guys? i mean stolen technology? c’mon! let’s use a bit of our neurons here. i mean [the seal in the technology transfer door] is so tight not even a draft can get through it.
You could also claim that America "feared" the Soviets. That's why you didn't dare intervene in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. You haven't intervened in North Korea today because you "fear" China. You didn't intervene in Georgia in 2008 because you "feared" Russia.
The Soviet Union collapsed because they persisted in promoting an unsustainable economic model, not because they feared the US. The Chinese are smart enough not to make that mistake and they are patient enough to wait you out on Taiwan. (They are quietly forging deep commercial ties with Taiwan and in thirty years, Taiwan will become part of China all but in name).
The World has come a long way from the days of naked fear of Genghis Khan - like dictators and Stalin. The US cannot play that game and you know it. You had 150,000 soldiers in Iraq at one point, yet the Iraqi Government fears you less than they fear the Iranians and respects you even less. In fact, you look quite silly in Iraq - losing 5,000 soldiers yet losing key contracts to the Chinese and the Iraqi Government cannot wait to kick you out.
In March, 2008 (during the Bush presidency), Mahmoud Ahmedinejad spent 2 days in Iraq after boldly announcing before hand that he was coming. Contrast that to all senior American officials who had (and still have to) sneak in and out of Iraq.
The Chinese have seen how hard it was for you to subdue a nation of 24 million (weakened by a decade of sanctions) and they know that there is no way America can subdue China using conventional weapons. That leaves nuclear weapons, but the Chinese also have them.
I will rather die than fear America and many people on this planet feel that way. I respect America, but if you guys want to play the fear game, forget it. It will be your downfall.
As for Cuban missile crisis and Taiwan, those were sort of like chess moves between super powers who weren't actually looking for an all out nuclear war. The US feared the Chinese and Russians as much as they did the US.
We need to change that. I want the rest of the world to wet their pants when they think of us.
All very true. Fact is US has far more to lose then any country in the world. That fact alone makes US more fearful of other countries regardless of how many nukes US possess.
You seem to forget that we folded on the IRBM sites in Turkey at the same time. There was no victory over the Cuban missile crisis.
I love America, I respect America.
But let me repeat this for emphasis, I will rather die than fear America.
I don't have much of a problem with that. Actually, I have no problem with it at all.
Well, many people all over the World feel that way.
Take a look at your closest allies - the Israelis, the Brits and the Australians. None of these people fear America and they have never feared America. They respect America and they love and identify with American values.
I know some Americans love “tough talking”, but in your more sober moments kindly consider what the appeal of America has been since the end of the Cold War.
Do not assume like Chairman Mao that “power flows out from the barrel of a gun”. Do not also assume that your power comes from your great wealth (especially at a time when even Brazil holds more than $200 billion of US debt).
America’s strength (if you didn’t know it), is moral. If you plan to discard the fine tradition of moral strength started by your founding fathers and strut around the World like a second-rate Genghis Khan - you will regret it.
But it does. George Washington was more eloquent on the subject when he said "Government is not eloquence. It is not reason. Government is force." All government is a monopoly on the use of force, that's all.
strut around the World like a second-rate Genghis Khan - you will regret it.
I never said I wanted to conquer the world. I simply want it to fear us. I don't give a crap what you do in your 3rd world rat holes. I really don't. I don't care if you come, stay, lay or pray.
But I want the world to know that if you f*** with America your cities go up in balls of nuclear fire. Period.
Nations like to join the nuclear club precisely because the thought of nuclear retaliation serves as a deterrent. But it’s not just the nuclear strength alone but land, naval, and airpower as well. Of course there are guerilla wars (Vietnam and Afghanistan) but at the end of the day enemy calculates the strength of the oopposition. This has been the history of warfare. Tyrants understand only one language-force. If the US is not feared as a superpower then we are reduced to saber-rattling at best. Perhaps, as an enhanced Papua New-Guinea.
If you think Iran is not calculating possible strikes by Israel and the US, if you don’t think that China is likewise worried about US intervention should it try to take on Taiwan, or that North Korea is restrained from invading the south, then it is point of view that is completely at odds with the reality on the ground.
The Soviet Union collapsed because they could not keep up with the US Defense build-up and attempts to rein in the “Star Wars” program by treaty failed at that now famous summit between Reagan and Gorbachev in Iceland.
The slogan, “You Don’t Mess with The US of A” meant something. We saw how the Taliban government was routed in under 7 days, how Saddam was driven out of Kuwait, and the spectacular offense in “Shock and Awe” when Saddam drove out US weapons inspectors and laughed at UN Security Council Resolutions.
Unfortunately, today under a supine President and a toothless foreign policy as executed by Clinton, third world nations and petty tyrants think they can get away with it. We saw what the British did in the Falklands when Argentina tried to captures a forlorn island that belonged to the British, a lesson well learned by the Argentinians. And a former Panamanian dictator who sought to challenge US supremacy in Latin America now sits in a US jail.
America fails under weak presidents who do not flex US military muscle as we saw under Carter, Clinton, and now Obama. The motto “Peace Through Strenghth” is as good today as when the Republic was first born.
xxx You seem to forget that we folded on the IRBM sites in Turkey at the same time. There was no victory over the Cuban missile crisis. xxx
i think the more correct term for it is known as [a quit pro quo] though we have a tendency of glorying, dramatizing, and portraying everything that favors our interest as a brave, honorable, and gallant feat and/or victory.
metaphorically, it was only moment left before both hands of the doomsday clock strikes midnight before robert recommended to booby the turkey trade off. if otherwise, all those nuclear attack drill we took in primary school when kids would have become a very real scenario.
in any case, all big boy’s, they don’t back off. their faces are dependent on it. with the big boy’s, it’s like staring into the blank, empty, and impossible to read faces of the very last mans stand in a texas holdem tournament in vegas.
not truthfully well informed enough? do some research.
It is a futile attempt. You cannot make a person fearful who refuses to be afraid. Just wont happen.
xxx But I want the world to know that if you f*** with America your cities go up in balls of nuclear fire. Period. xxx
He he (:)! I like that. I think Americans are damn sexy, the fair ones that is. Their only competition and they do have competitions is the Korean Air ad girls and, of course, sise by side with them are the Zhang Ziyi’s of these east... But, when it comes Sharon Stoneies of our world, why not (:) if leisurely (:)? But don’t let my Zhang Ziyi know I said that however other wise she’s go and seek out a Vivo of her own over this red head here (:).
This is hardly news, the Pakis always share with their benefactor, the Chicoms — after all the Paki nukes come with instructions in Chinese, as do the “Paki designed” missiles....
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