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To: BrandtMichaels
BrandtMichaels: "The hair on these mammoths was shown scientifically to be for cooling purposes.
They each had a dietary need for roughly 40 lbs of vegetation daily therefore the arctic was not cold when they were thriving there [more likely lush and tropical], but they were all killed in an ice storm of epic proportions."

Those are testable claims which I'm certain have been shown false.
The first obvious observation is: Elephants, rhinoceroses & other large mammals which live in hot climates have minimal hair, and do have other features to shed excess heat -- i.e., large ears.
When remains of similar animals are found in the arctic, they have long hair and smaller ears.
We can see that same long hair today on arctic muskox:

Second, your claim that mammoths need 40 pounds of vegetation per day, and this is supposedly not available in the arctic, is nonsense when you consider that today's arctic supports half a million caribou in Alaska alone.
So any suggestion that it could not support smaller herds of mammoths is just ludicrous.

Third, climates in ancient times can easily be determined by, among other methods, examining the remains of plants and animals found in geological strata.
If those plants are of species which grow in the tropics then we know the climate was warm, but if they are arctic plants, then we know it was colder.

So here's what we know: for the last several million years, arctic climates have alternated between deep-freeze ice ages of about 100,000 years followed by 10,000 to 20,000 years of warmer "interglacials" such as we have now.
And so far, the earliest woolly mammoth remains date to about 150,000 years ago, and the last about 10,000 years ago.
This time period includes the current plus one previous warm interglacial, with all of the time between being very deep-freeze ice-age climate.

Fourth, the final extinction of woolly mammoths about 10,000 years ago corresponds to warming climate, which caused a 90% reduction in suitable cold-climate mammoth habitat.

As for Dr. Walt Brown's lunacies, I'll have to leave that for someone else to deal with.

Bottom line: any suggestion that artic climates were relatively warm during most of the past ice ages is not supported by any evidence I know of.

78 posted on 09/29/2011 11:49:34 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

I recalled incorrectly regarding vegetation of 40 lbs daily - per Walt’s book below...

Abundant Food. A typical wild elephant requires about 330 pounds of food per day. Therefore, vast quantities of food were needed to support the estimated 5,000,000 mammoths that lived in just a small portion of northern Siberia. Adams’ mammoth, discovered in 1799, “was so fat ... that its belly hung below its knees.”109 How was abundant food available inside the Arctic Circle, especially during winter months when the Sun rarely shines?

Warm Climate. Abundant food requires a temperate climate, much warmer than northern Siberia today—or during the Ice Age. Little of the food found in Berezovka’s mouth and stomach grows near the Arctic Circle today. Furthermore, the flower fragments in its stomach show that it died during warm weather. Despite the popular misconception, the mammoth was a temperate—not an Arctic—animal.

Frozen Muck. Mammoth carcasses are almost exclusively encased in frozen muck.112 Also buried in muck are huge deposits of trees and other animal and vegetable matter. The origin of muck is a mystery.

Sudden Freezing. Some frozen mammoths and rhinoceroses had food preserved in their mouths, stomachs, or intestines.113

Suffocation. At least three mammoths and two rhinoceroses suffocated. No other cause of death has been established for the remaining frozen giants.

Dirty Lungs. Dima’s respiratory and digestive tract contained silt, clay, and small particles of gravel. Just before he died, Dima breathed air and/or ate food containing such matter.

Peppered Tusks. Why, over wide geographical areas, did millimeter-size particles (rich in iron and nickel) become embedded in one side of some mammoth tusks?


79 posted on 09/29/2011 1:48:26 PM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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