Posted on 07/18/2011 4:57:14 PM PDT by NoLibZone
Looking for best quickest cheapest route to make my boys into Systems Admins.
Network Systems Administration: Is this hooking up and maintaining networks?
Whats Information Systems Administration?
Are these good routes:
ITT?
Devry?
Other?
Thank you.
Your community colleges may have suitable certificate and/or degree programs. And you can probably find someone there to give you a straight story as to what is the best program for your needs and what are the true job prospects for graduates.
I don’t want to discourage you but there are a tremendous number of certified IT people who are out of work. The job seeker pool is crowded. Much of the serious advice on this thread is good advice. Get a basic training in computers - A+ - get a low level job... Let the corporation pay for higher level training. Corporations will do this for sharp younger people but not for anyone in their 40’s or beyond. Leaning CISCO VOIP is a good area - (computer network based phone systems). For Cisco Call Manager and Unity (voice mail) training a private school charges about $3200 and it won’t make you certified. Getting base level employment with municipalities, city, county, state universities, school districts or even State bureaucratic employment will help assure eventual paid training towards certification... IF you can get past the bias favoring women and minorities for such positions.
Having a EE and talking about these morons who finally get the routers right is apples and oranges. It is moving fast. I knew the lay of Schneider long before they did.
No cursing? What kinda outfit are you running there?
Bkmk.
She (it was a girl?!) started off by saying "I'm calling about the f#%$#%ing interview?"
I was a little dumbfounded, figured that I might have mis-heard her. Nope, she dropped the f-Bomb a number of times in the 2-3 minutes I spoke with her. Needless to say, she didn't get the job. :-)
Found out from a buddy of mine, later on, that she likely needed to interview to keep UE bennies, and threw the interview. I'd not run into that before; it was a bit of an eye-opener.
RE> Network Systems Administration: Is this hooking up and maintaining networks?
Yes. Installing and maintaining switches, routers and firewalls (LAN). Understanding network security is typically crucial. Knowledge of types of Telecom data lines is usually important (WAN).
RE> Whats Information Systems Administration?
This is typically installing and maintaining operating systems as servers or desktops in a corporate environment, such as MS Windows or Unix, printing and backup systems, and can also include managing telephone systems (many phone PBXs run over the network these days). Usually systems and network administration are kept as separate functions, but in small companies they can be combined.
RE> Are these good routes:
ITT?
Devry?
Other?
Can be to achieve internships, which is a good first step, but for actual network admin, engineering, or consulting positions, see my earlier post.
Best of luck.
I would have reported her as a no show.
That’s wild. Ask them about the triangle of power. If anybody drops any curse near me they are toast.
Experience. Period.
Brilliant. Next time.....I'm sure there will be a next time....that's EXACTLY what's going to happen.
“Any Cisco certification program such as CCNA, CCNP, or CCIE can help get a foot in the door in an entry Network Admin position. I highly suggest CISSP certification which can really make a candidate attractive for well paying network security positions. Also it is advisable to study Checkpoint firewalls or attaining CCSA and CCSE certifications.”
I agree. Problem with the CISCO exams is you have to have hands on experience because part of the exam is lab work. I just finished reading the CCNA and while I know most of it, I have no hands on for the labs.
In my opinion, the CISSP is the most coveted of certifications. Security is hugh and series right now. And if you can obtain it in the military and have them pay for it, you are set.
A+ certifications are ok for starters and the courses aren’t too expensive.
The other course that is pretty easy and doesn’t cost much money is ITIL V3 Foundations, which is Service Management. Getting this and then getting on a help desk might be the best way to go.
I have my PMP (Project Management Professional) designation as well as SCRUM and was sitting unemployed for almost a year. Got my ITIL and the first week got more than a dozen calls about positions.
I would suggest looking on the web for the free stuff first. Some of these courses can run 3k or more.
Good luck
There’s a big difference between the “server admin” sorts of tracks and the “network admin” sorts of tracks.
Server admins can get value out of an MCSE, and good solid knowledge of Linux (or full-on Unix). They manage the servers, software, databases, storage arrays... the hardware that sits on the network.
Network admins need Cisco certifications, period. CCNA is a good start, CCNE will open doors. They manage the routers, switches, firewalls and all the cloud-hitting stuff that gives people ~access~ to the servers.
In either track, the hip thing ~right now~ and for the forseeable future is “Security”. That’s the thing that everybody is worried about.
But nomatter what, experience and ability trumps schoolwork and certs. I.T. is an industry that moves and changes too fast for much of the schoolwork to have any practical application in the working world. By the time somebody gets a BS in Comp Sci, much of what they learned is obsolete. The basics still apply, but much of the advanced stuff will have changed.
I think I would advise to get an entry level job in I.T. first, and get the rest of the education and certs along the way. That’s a way to get the experience clock started, and still have the coursework be useful during the ride.
My .02 (from a Director of IT in a publicly held company).
I’ve been a MCSE since 99 and have way too many certs. I would focus on one of three technologies, MS, cisco or vmware. Vmware is a bit more advanced and does require a well rounded understanding of ms, network and some unix.
I know a lot of high schools offer tech training and quite a few state colleges have cheap classes as well.
One of the best places to apply at bigger companies is their help desk. They usually have a high turnover rate because any good company will train them up and promote from within. I routinely hire from our help desk.
“Network Systems Administrator” is a bit confusing. There’s Network Admins who do the networking (routers, switches, cables, etc.) and there’s Systems Administrators who handle servers and services. These are two separate career fields.
In a nutshell if they are strong in logic skills they would do better in networking. If they are better in reasoning (multi-variable problem solving ) they will do better in systems.
Cisco for networking and Microsoft and COMPTIA for Systems. Cross-trained is also important and will distinguish and advance them beyond their peers as each field must know the other field’s capabilities and needs. When one engineer can deduce what two IT departments and the supervisor are trying to accomplish it’s easy to get ahead.
Now, I’ll give the advice as others and say they should join the military in an IT Military Occupational Specialty (MOS). This will give them the all-important US SECRET security clearance which will open a great many opportunities once their 3 years are up. US SECRET IT jobs cannot be outsourced and draw from a limited pool of applicants.
-Only for a FReeper....
A better question would be, for example, "what career path in computer industry is most valuable?" Instead you picked a position of menial labor (roughly speaking) and proceeded from there. Sysadmins are janitors of server rooms; they fix old software, they talk to ISVs, they crawl under desks to connect cables, they fix broken computers... why in the world would you want your children to go into that job? Besides, IT departments are outsourced to India by thousands. Today's Internet allows Indians to manage your network from Bangalore, securely and reliably. You only need one local IT guy to, basically, replace the hardware when it fails. A monkey (untrained) can do that.
A bunch of earlier replies in this thread talk about Cisco and other router jockeys. Those jobs may be more lucrative... and at the same time they are more rare. How many companies you know that have a need for a Cisco router? If you just look around, most businesses (incl. small businesses) don't need any of that stuff even if you give it to them for free. I work in computer and hardware industry for a long time, and I can count all the Cisco routers that I saw on one finger of one hand. It's like going into general auto industry in expectation that you will be driving F-1 or Indy cars but getting an old pickup truck for delivery of groceries instead.
If I were to express an opinion, I would say that the best one can do in computer industry today is to become a developer. The absolute best if you have mastery of both hardware and software, and can do system design. That is not required, though. There is plenty of room for software development. You can write a program, post it on a Web site and collect revenue as it comes. The easiest, of course, is to write for smartphones - and that market is wide open and growing. Today's software for smartphones is laughable, compared to what it may be. But most is rushed to the market, with a generally correct idea that money today is better than more money tomorrow.
The reason why I think this is a better investment is because you as a programmer are not easily replaceable. You are an inventor, and inventors are unique. Sysadmins, on the other hand, can be replaced overnight. A sysadmin can't easily open a business and sell his product - he has no product, he has a service, and it's hard to sell it in the age of "clouds." A programmer can *always* set up a small business and code for fun and profit, be his own boss. A programmer is mobile, and if he is good he will be in demand. In the end, only the intellectual contribution is valuable in today's world. You can't beat Indians or Chinese on price, but you can invent better than they do, or invent in a way that US customers value more.
Bookmark.
Ditto that. Every single place that I've worked uses the help desk as the farm team for more senior IT positions. With maybe "Interns" as a developmental-type league.
And, thinking about it, the only IT guy that I can think of who *didn't* start on the help desk, is me. My first employer was pretty desperate (they must have been, to hire me) and tossed me into the deep end of the pool to start with. Almost 20 years later, I guess I did OK. Things were a little different then, though...computer knowledge was still next to witchcraft in a lot of people's eyes. Not anymore.
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