Posted on 07/05/2011 11:56:47 AM PDT by moonshinner_09
A 10-year proposal to put nearly 1 million immigrants on the path to citizenship rather than deportation finally received an overdue Senate hearing last week.
The DREAM Act would give Americanized children of illegal immigrants a chance to obtain citizenship and remain in the country that they have come to call home. It is directed at an estimated 800,000 people between 12 and 35 years of age who were brought here as young children by their parents, but could face being returned to a country they have never known or called their homeland Many of them have gone on to obtain college degrees and hold jobs.
The act would allow immigrants brought here before they were 15 to qualify for citizenship if they have lived here for at least five years and completed at least two years of college or military service. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the act could yield $1.4 billion in tax revenues from working immigrants. Military officials say the DREAM Act could help meet a recruiting shortage when U.S. troops return from Iraq and Afghanistan and the economy improves.
(Excerpt) Read more at thedailynewsonline.com ...
BS. It is a privilege and honor to serve in our armed forces. It is also a duty of citizenship. Are you suggesting that we should make a worldwide call and say that anyone willing to serve should be admitted into the US and given citizenship? What kind of country have we become when we allow people who broke our laws to enter this country to serve in our military.
This country is going to Hell. This is supposed to be a conservative website, but I guess the Ruke of Law no longer obtains. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.
They must have lied and committed identity theft. There is no way they could be allowed to serve legally. I wonder how they received their security clearances.
NO DAMN AMNESTY, OF ANY KIND, FOR ANYONE, UNTIL THE BORDERS ARE CLOSED. ALL THE BORDERS. AND THE LOTTERY IS ENDED. AND WE ONCE AGAIN BEGIN TO PICK AND CHOSE WHO COMES HERE. AND NO BILINGUAL ED. AND NO EXTENDED FAMILY REUNIFICATION. AND NO SHIELDING OF ILLEGAL ALIENS CRIMINALS.
DO THAT FOR THE 25 YEARS WE’VE BEEN DOING THE CURRENT FARCE, THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN WE TALK ABOUT “LEGALIZING” PEOPLE.
Agree.
"It is also a duty of citizenship."
Since the promulgation of the "All volunteer military", that is no longer true. I personally prefer Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" approach, but that isn't (nor likely to be) the way things are.
"Are you suggesting that we should make a worldwide call and say that anyone willing to serve should be admitted into the US and given citizenship?
No. But if some choose to volunteer to do so, I'm fine with it. Obviously, background checks of some sort would be needed.
"What kind of country have we become when we allow people who broke our laws to enter this country to serve in our military."
Note that the topic is about young people who were brought into our country involuntarily. "They" are not the ones who broke our laws....their parents are. If they choose NOT to volunteer and serve, then permanent residency is the maximum they should get, but some degree of compassion is needed for their plight. I "would" send their lawbreaker parents back to the "old home country", though. If the kiddies choose to stay or go along with the folks, I'm fine with either choice.
Baloney. They are lawbreakers along with their parents. Both should be deported. Are you saying that all children who entered this country under the age of 18 or 21 should be allowed to stay here? Can you imagine what kind of message that sends to the rest of the world? And many of these children who would be eligible for the Dream Act could be up to age 35. Once they reach age 21, they can sponsor their parents, grandparents, siblings, wives, etc. as legal immigrants under chain migration, i.e., family reunification.
If they choose NOT to volunteer and serve, then permanent residency is the maximum they should get, but some degree of compassion is needed for their plight.
That is an amnesty. Plight? Most have hit the lottery. Free education, health care, and life in a developed country all at the US taxpayer expense. There is no reason that a "child" who was brought here at 15 can't go back to his/her home country. They should be deported along with their parents.
I have been active in a grassroots immigration group for the past 5 years. We lobby at the federal and state level. I have testified before legislators on the immigration issue. The Dream Act was part of the McCain-Kennedy amnesty bill in 2007. It is a cynical attempt to get amensty for up to 3 million people using the US military and college as pegs to convince the public to side emotionally with illegal aliens. It has been effective since the Dems always use the children as an excuse to push their agenda. Don't fall for it. When you reward something you get more of it.
If the Dream Act was really about compassion then it would include children who do not attend college or serve in the military. The Left knows that the only way they can get some semblance of public support is to create a special class of "deserving children," college graduates and those willing to serve in the US military.
I "would" send their lawbreaker parents back to the "old home country", though. If the kiddies choose to stay or go along with the folks, I'm fine with either choice.
It should be our choice, not theirs. And if we followed your prescription, the parents would be right back here as legal immigrants sponsored by their children. And more than likely many more family members would come as well.
This phony concern for the illegal alien children is misplaced and dangerous. Let's secure our borders, track down and deport visa overstays, and enforce our existing laws.
\ True. But the parents made a delilberate choice to break the law. The kids did not.
"Both should be deported."
I disagree. "If" the kids have kept their noses clean, learned English, and show good character otherwise, let'em stay as permanent residents. Gangbangers, juvenile delinquents, etc....give'me the boot.
"Are you saying that all children who entered this country under the age of 18 or 21 should be allowed to stay here?"
See above.
"Can you imagine what kind of message that sends to the rest of the world?
Depends on how the law is written and enforced. The simple approach is for there to be a cutoff date/time to which the amnesty (and yes, it "is" an amnesty, and one with which I happen to agree) will not apply.
"And many of these children who would be eligible for the Dream Act could be up to age 35. Once they reach age 21, they can sponsor their parents, grandparents, siblings, wives, etc. as legal immigrants under chain migration, i.e., family reunification."
I'm not talking about the "Dream Act". Again, the simple approach is that all of those goodies DO NOT APPLY to those who will get permanent residency (OR citizenship in the case of military service).
"Free education, health care, and life in a developed country all at the US taxpayer expense.
See my point about "getting an education",etc. Prospective GOOD citizens/residents will have jobs and pay their way.
"There is no reason that a "child" who was brought here at 15 can't go back to his/her home country."
I think I can agree with that. But again, the simple approach is to set a maximum age above which the law does not apply. I think a good cutoff would be "pre-school" age.
As to the rest of your diatribe, I can only say that I'm NOT talking about the "Dream Act", but a hypothetical different piece of legislation that avoids the problems of same and still allows a degree of compassion for honest, hardworking kids brought here without their consent.
But the editorial, the subject of this thread is talking about the Dream Act legislation. You live in a fantasy world.
Depends on how the law is written and enforced. The simple approach is for there to be a cutoff date/time to which the amnesty (and yes, it "is" an amnesty, and one with which I happen to agree) will not apply.
We had an amnesty in 1986. The proponents said it was a one-time amnesty, the last one we would ever have. At the time, the USG estimated 1 million would apply. The true number turned out to be 2.7 million. And now just 25 years later, we have to 12 to 20 million illegal aliens and the pro-amnesty crowd calling for their legalization. This is just more insanity couched in concern for the "children."
We bring in 1.2 million LEGAL immigrants every year and that doesn't count the 300,000 to 400,000 anchor babies born to illegal aliens each year. Add another 500,000 to 1 million illegal aliens entering annually and you wind up with the USA being colonized by the Third World. You need to get into the real world and deal with the actual legislation that is being proposed, not what you would like to see. The idea that the other side will be satisfied with cutoff dates is just part of the deluded thinking that led to the last amnesty. The Left never takes no for an answer. They will continue to push until they achieve their objective.
And I'm offering what "could" be acceptable approaches INSTEAD OF the "Dream Act". Just because someone happens to disagree with your position doesn't mean they "live in a dream world".
As to the rest of your post, you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I probably know as much about the immigration situation as you, and I'm probably in agreement with you on 90+% or more. But I'm willing to accept "some" leeway. Close the border (and if that means a land-mine laden five-mile wide strip from the Texas Gulf Coast to the Pacific Ocean, fine). Make it virtually impossible to get work by actually CHECKING their documentation, and send any business owner who knowingly hired them TO JAIL. And deport'em if they are caught in any legal infraction.
Acceptble to whom? You are an amnesty supporter. Do you also support in-state tution for illegals? It is easy to be compassionate and generous with other people's money. Conservative estimates place the costs of illegal immigration at $113 billion and that only includes education, incarceration, and health care costs.
Where is the sense of fairness for American children who may lose places in universities due to illegals? The vast majority of illegals are minorities entitled to such things as affirmative action. Read the article below about the real world where I live.
University Insiders: Illegal Immigrants Get Affirmative Action
As to the rest of your post, you're not telling me anything I don't already know. I probably know as much about the immigration situation as you,
Don't flatter yourself. This issue is my fulltime passion 24/7 365 days of the year. I am involved legislatively and with other immigration organizations like NumbersUSA, CIS, FAIR, and the Tea Party movement. I will match my knowledege with yours anytime. People who really know the issue don't make statements like yours.
Sure am, of a very specific and limited nature. And stop trying to put words in my mouth with all the rest of your blatherings.
"Don't flatter yourself. This issue is my fulltime passion 24/7 365 days of the year. I am involved legislatively and with other immigration organizations like NumbersUSA, CIS, FAIR, and the Tea Party movement. I will match my knowledege with yours anytime. People who really know the issue don't make statements like yours.
I think the non-fanatics just might. But obviously you ARE a fanatic, and intelligent discussion isn't possible.
Again, you have raised NO point that I didn't already know about. I just happen to have a different opinion on a very narrowly defined issue, specifically, that children brought here with no say in the matter who have demonstrated the potentiality to be "good citizens" (this includes, IMO, the category of permanent residency), should be allowed to remain.
That's like being a little bit pregnant. You don't reward lawbreakers. You are the one blathering with little or no facts, just "compassion" and emotion.
I think the non-fanatics just might. But obviously you ARE a fanatic, and intelligent discussion isn't possible.
LOL. People who disagree with you are fanatics? You lack the facts and rely on personal attacks. I am a realist and you live in a fantasy world where you create your own Dream Act.
just happen to have a different opinion on a very narrowly defined issue, specifically, that children brought here with no say in the matter who have demonstrated the potentiality to be "good citizens" (this includes, IMO, the category of permanent residency), should be allowed to remain.
Pure sophistry. How do you define children? What does "potentiality to be good citizens mean?" Permanent residency? Does that mean they can sponsor their parents once they reach 21 to come to this country? Your vacuous statement is not the stuff of policy. The devil is always in the details. Back in the real world, we are faced with the Dream Act, an actual piece of legislation that must be dealt with. You support it or you don't.
if we give legal status to people who live here illegally, it is necessarily a slap in the face to legal immigrants. It makes those who play by the rules look like dupes for having taken our immigration laws seriously. Whenever there is an amnesty for illegal immigrants, there is always the concern that it will encourage more illegal immigration in the future. On the understandable assumption that their children might benefit from some future legalization, more people may settle in our country illegally if the DREAM Act passes.
I’m a native Arizonan and living on the front line, so to speak. I have seen what illegal immigration is doing to our country. There are so many groups (Open Borders, Big Business, Socialists) who have a vested interest in flooding us with another culture, language, and tearing down our borders. We need to close our borders, establish English as the official language and start deporting every illegal as fast as we can. Even the kids who grow up here and seem like they have assimilated will end up doing all they can to get highly educated and join in the fight to keep everything open. California has fallen and Arizona is close on its heels. I’m starting to feel like an alien in my own state and it’s getting worse, not better. We need to get tough now, before it’s too late.
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