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To: petitfour
I suspected this story was going to turn out badly for Cop Haters and the otherwise well meaning FReepers being used a tools to further their legalize drugs agenda.
12 posted on 05/28/2011 3:10:58 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Obama can't see something pure like the truth without wanting to abort it.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

When you have to resort to unfounded character assassination to make a point you have no point.


13 posted on 05/28/2011 3:22:15 AM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/15/08 and why?)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Simple official story has changed too many times for it to be veritable.

Originally the reports were of 71 shots upon the victim.

Then the reports from the Sheriff were of only 6 of the 71 shots having struck their target.

Most reports on the web now indicate he was struck by 60 of the 71 shots fired.

It’s as though the story is scrubbed and rescrubbed to fit whatever agenda is at hand.

IMHO, from the video, the team making the assault behaved similar to the type of individuals who lack virtue and wouldn’t discount planting weapons, drugs, or any other evidence at the scene to cover up their criminal actions.

Transcripts of the SWAT Cmdr don’t seem to be consistent.
http://azstarnet.com/online/pdf/pdf_1dcb28b4-8825-11e0-b417-001cc4c002e0.html

They first claim the residents were bad guys, part of an extensive 4 house drug cartel, drug running operation, who had situational awareness of anybody watching them. After the shooting, they receive calls of wounded innocent people being reported at other address numbers, which didn’t exist, so their immediate plan is to go next door and breach that house looking for wounded civilians from errant rounds of the initial assault. All of this happening while a 4 yr old child is still in the house they first attacked, had called the mother out and she surrendered to their custody.

If they assumed this was a dangerous situation, really didn’t know all the address numbers, nor even the name of the person whom they were going after, assumed he had eyes in the back of his head, used weapons which would penetrate walls for blocks in their assault, then reacted to breach the neighbor’s house, but with intent of looking for wounded bystanders,.....wouldn’t anybody with tactical sense first be more cautious of conducting a frontal assault on an overwatch position?

The victim had previously been reported as having body armor and an M16/AR15. SWAT team cmdr reported the victim was only wearing boxer shorts and obviously dead, shot many times with exit wounds in his head, arm, leg, back, arms over his head, laying down with lots of brain matter, bone fragments in the walls and lots of blood,...so much that he was declared dead by a doctor watching via a video on a robot which had bumped into the victim several times to provoke a response, without any movement.

The body armor they discovered was in a 3’x2’ plastic storage container in the garage with a Border patrol hat (aside,..he was a Marine,..sure that wasn’t a DI hat?)

In the transcript, the SWAT CMDR is quoted, “Um, since I’m not going to do a report, can I throw a few more things in that we saw?”

Why wouldn’t the Cmdr at the scene, conducting the operation prepare a formal report? This all falls on the head of those who relieved him of reporting and that person or persons needs to be held fully responsible, including proof that they have not been planting evidence to coverup their inappropriate behavior.

On top of all of this, the SWAT CMDR was scared during the shooting, which after the event now is fairly well documented as being an entirely one sided altercation.

IMHO, there is far more evidence to warrant a SWAT operation on the home of the persons directing these operations than the victims.

The cops have created a culture of perceiving the public as suspects and reinforcements as bodies, while they simply crave adrenaline rushes, then get scared and look for safety. They aren’t saving anybody other than their own lust for control.

This is why military commanders train to prepare 5 paragraph orders. It might not satiate the glandular lust for an adrenaline rush, but it keeps wherewithal controlling deadly force prior to and during the execution of the orders.

This report indicates all their behavior was learned response to a perceived threat when gunfire erupts, then just a series of learned tactics to control an unknown situation, but they all have begun based upon sloppy serving of a warrant and grossly inadequate police work.


44 posted on 05/28/2011 4:45:16 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
"I suspected this story was going to turn out badly for Cop Haters..."

That's ok, it turned out pretty good for the Marine Veteran haters. Happy Memorial Day.

56 posted on 05/28/2011 5:15:28 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I don’t see how. The story said “No drugs or large amounts of cash were found inside Jose Guerena’s home”. Looks like a “good shoot” to you, does it? It is generally not illegal to own a .38 Colt or a bullet proof vest. The way I read this, some folks this guy knew may have been involved in drug dealing. Does that make it OK to kill him?I hope you are not affiliated with the cops in my locale. This is why I hate the war on drugs. It is not that I am fond of drugs or the people who use them. Quite the contrary. I hate the WOD because it makes otherwise rational people think it is OK to kick in doors and kill people for basically nothing without even exploring sane alternatives. Don’t you think the police could have just arrested they guy when he showed up for his next 12 hour shift and avoided all this? I think these cops are murderers, no better than any other gang of home invading thugs.


101 posted on 05/28/2011 6:08:35 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: Berlin_Freeper

So you are saying if they find a bag of marijuana in my brothers house a mile away the Men in Black are justified to shoot me 22 times, despite the fact there is no evidence of my involvement?


113 posted on 05/28/2011 7:03:48 AM PDT by TxDas (This above all, to thine ownself be true.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Are you in some way attempting to defend the manner in which this warrant was served?

Are you aware that NO arrests have been made ... even in connection with the raid on the dead man's brother's home?

What happened here is that the SWAT with 10 seconds warning, breached the front door of a home whose residents' sole 'problem' was a family relationship to someone else at another address suspected of criminal activity. The SWAT member carrying the shield tripped and fell. Those crowding behind him panicked, apparently thought he had been shot and laid down "suppressive" fire down the hallways as they dragged him to safety.

Of course the cop haters will have a field day with this case. That's because this is a classic, and getting to be all too common, case of the abuse of police powers. Please research Sheriff Dupnik of Pima County, follow this for a few more days, and then repost. Be interested in your considered opinion.

115 posted on 05/28/2011 7:05:00 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (We live in America's "Awkward" Era. Too late to fix the country. To early to start shooting.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
I suspected this story was going to turn out badly for Cop Haters and the otherwise well meaning FReepers being used a tools to further their legalize drugs agenda.

So he's guilty because some family members weren't?

Why on earth was he working 3 12 hr shifts straight in the mines - if he was involved and all that money was floating around - where'd he find the time to run a drug/invasion operation - Now that this Sheriff Dipstick has has two weeks to concoct and cover up - we're going to believe HIM and the wimps who fired 71 shots at a man who never even took the safety off his his gun - if indeed it WAS his gun...reports say his wife said all he owned was a handgun - and she saw the cops threw "a big gun" down next to him - after he finally died - Anyone asking WHY they refused to let the paramedics in to treat him - waiting 1 hour and 14 minutes - and then telling the paramedics they wouldn't be needed...More like they knew they'd screwed up big time and were getting their cover story made up and sure everyone would be on the same page.

Even so, they've already had to retract several allegations.

Yep - you go right ahead and turn on this Marine vet...

You DO remember who Sheriff DipStick is, don't you? The one that came out screaming that it was some disgruntled Tea Party Conservative who went on the rampage that killed the judge, the little girl and others and shot Gabby G. in the head. Yeah, he's a straight up guy.

127 posted on 05/28/2011 8:41:33 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (watch the other hand)
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