Posted on 05/06/2011 7:06:28 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
The good news: It’s a heavy blow to the Trump boomlet. The bad news: … none that I can think of, really.
Actually, the bad news is that I lose a vein of easy content to blog. Help me, viral videos, you’re my only hope.
More crosstabs from WaPo. The “Honolulu/Hawaii” column is the big one, obviously:
This poll was conducted before Obama’s announcement of the Bin Laden killing, in case you’re inclined to attribute the huge bounce to goodwill rather than evidence. Needless to say, the key lines are the ones for Republicans and Conservative Republicans; in both groups, the number of Birthers was cut by more than half after the birth certificate revelation. (In fact, it was likely deeper than that. Birtherism had been spiking in the last few weeks since Trump mainstreamed the issue, so it was probably higher than the April 2010 numbers shown here.) I argued a few weeks ago that, contrary to big media’s received wisdom, Birthers aren’t a homogeneous group but rather a mix of hardcore and softcore believers, the latter of which were simply misinformed because they weren’t following the issue closely. These numbers bear that out. Which, for Chris Matthews, means … what? Republicans are racist, but maybe not quite as racist as he thought? What happens to the narrative?
Some people were hassling me in Headlines over this poll because I suggested yesterday in the post about the Bin Laden photos that evidence doesn’t convince skeptics anymore. Fair enough; at the very least, I should have qualified that by specifying that I meant skeptics with an agenda. But give the Birther issue time. I’ll be mighty keen to see if the numbers still look like this in six months — which, theoretically, they should — or if they start to creep back up as discontent with Obama’s policies rises and/or hardcore Birthers regroup and start challenging the long-form birth certificate. Trump had better hope so. Somehow, I don’t see the “trade war with China” platform carrying him to the nomination.
‘Because I really really want it to be true’ is not supporting evidence.
The birthers are not looking like fools to “those who don't want the truth to come out” - they are looking like fools to everybody who is aware of the situation.
They screamed and wailed and gnashed their teeth and put up billboards asking “Where is the Birth Certificate?” - and now that thy got what they supposedly wanted - it KILLED THEM!
Looking like a bunch of wild eyed conspiracy hacks SHOULD be a deterrent - to anyone who wishes to convince >50% of the American electorate to throw 0bama out of office by offering a reasoned argument why it should be so.
Well let’s see. This thread is about the birth certificate. You were talking about the birth certificate. I was talking about the birth certificate. We were talking about the birth certificate being fake. You appeared to believe the fake was real, but when I commented on that, you said it had nothing to do with whether you believed it or not, because whether it was true or not didn’t matter, and anyone who thought it did now looks foolish. And now you’re asking me what the truth is. Okay, the truth is, Obama is continuing to release bad forgeries. That’s the truth. And it does matter, because our Constitution matters. If the greatest risk involved in protecting our Constitution is the possibility of being thought foolish by those who can’t grasp the importance of our Constitution, I think it’s worth the risk. This isn’t about politics, technicalities, or trying to find a loophole to circumvent an election. This is not about the budget, golfing, or his tacky wife’s boob belts. This is about protecting our Constitution. If a man can offer his very life for that purpose, I can’t imagine why he would try to prevent others from possibly looking foolish to people who don’t understand, for the same purpose.
Proving to yourself that his COLB is fraudulent doesn't do one thing to protect the Constitution.
You were warned this was a dead end that was...
1) not ever going to lead to 0bama being removed from office
2) going to make anyone who signed onto it (Donald Trump) or who put up billboards asking “Where is the Birth Certificate?” look like morons when he gets the long form that has the same info as the short form and publishes it.
That you insist, based upon the most dubious sources - that the document is fake - is not at all surprising.
I have been predicting that when 0bama released the long form that would be the reaction.
Glad to see the wild eyed conspiracy theorists didn't disappoint. When one counts on them to act like reactionary idiots - one is rarely disappointed.
I hope you and Orly Taitz are very happy together. You deserve eachother.
Eat crow and like it.
What are you doing to actually defend the Constitution on that matter?
Does that not matter to you? Not as much? Less important that the President thinks he can unilaterally declare war with a UN or NATO resolution - and completely without Congress; or that fraudulent documents were filed in Hawaii in 1961 to allow someone who would otherwise not be eligible to be eligible?
1) Obama Sr. was not 0bama’s father.
2) 0bama cannot be a NBC because his father was not a citizen.
3) 0bama was not born in Hawaii. The birth announcements and/or COLB’s and/or confirmations through the Hawaii DOH are all fake.
4) 0bama was born in Hawaii but put forth a fraudulent long form (and/or short form) COLB to hide what the “real” documents say.
So what is the “truth” among birthers this week?
It's difficult to have a civil debate with liberals because they keep changing their mind about what they're defending, and they throw out unprovoked insults like "Eat crow and like it."
I think our Constitution is worth defending. I'm not going to stop just because the Obama camp feels threatened. I'm not going to stop just because some nobody on the Internet thinks it's bad for their political ambitions. My concern is not for you and Obama, or your petty desires. And I don't care if you don't like it, or if it makes you think poorly of me. Because it isn't about me. If what you say about your military experience is true, then you should understand that. Then again, if what you've said here about the importance of truth is true, then I can't put any stock in what you claim is true. I'll just stick to the simple truth, and avoid the puzzling questions about your version of it.
“Eat crow and like it” is not an insult. How does that insult you that I think you should eat crow - that is not a personal attack that attempts to demean you as a person.
Your suggestion that I am a liar and a liberal are exactly that.
Hard to have a civil discussion with someone who engages in all that.
Who do you suggest has been “protected” by the antics of the birthers? Certainly not me. Certainly not the Constitution.
The birthers made a botch of it. Now they should all EAT CROW. Liking it is, of course, perfectly optional.
For myself, I would rather you .......
ATE CROW AND LIKED IT!!!!!
See how nice I am? I want you to enjoy the experience!!!!!
Fraud cannot make someone eligible. It can make someone appear eligible, but only to those who believe the documents are real. There's something wrong with a person who knows the birth certificate is a forgery but still thinks it makes him eminently qualified to be president.
*******
"Stanley" signature on the picture: It looks different than the "Stanley" in parentheses written on Obama's long form birth certificate that Obama released on April 27, 2011.
Typical birther: “Do I have to decide on one?”
The truth is not buffet style - a little of this “truth” here - and a little of that “truth” there - “any argument that makes this guy go away” isn't a coherent argument - you kind of have to settle on one and GO WITH IT.
Most went with “Where is the Birth Certificate?” and it blew up in their faces.
Nothing to do now but....
EAT CROW AND LIKE IT!
I have settled on the facts, and gone with them. I’m not interested in other topics you may have discussed with people I don’t know. I have stuck to the topic of this thread, and maintained the position that the latest forgery is a forgery. You have waffled between believing the latest forgery is not a forgery, to believing that it is. You have tried to bring in other topics, while falsely attributing statements to me that I never made.
Why are you defending Obama so vigorously? Why is his presidency more valuable to you than the Constitution?
I have said nothing about believing it or not - just that I have seen no credible source that says it is false. You think Donald Trump couldn't find a credible expert to demolish this - but you could?
I have been consistent throughout that birthers need to EAT CROW. I haven't falsely attributed any statements to you. You are full of lies.
I am defending our party from the idiocy that threw Ann Coulter under the bus. I couldn't read an Ann Coulter thread on ANY subject without hearing about how nobody should ever listen to her ever again because she wasn't a birther.
I am gloating that what I long predicted : THAT THIS ISSUE WAS A LOSER AND WOULD BLOW UP IN FACES - came true. I am especially happy because it happened so early in the game - and kudos to Trump for that!
Yeah, the guy who warned the Roman army to not march into Hannibal's ambush was fighting to defend Hannibal and thought him more valuable than the Roman Republic!!!!
I think you are confused.
Those who said this was going to be a disaster have been shown to be correct.
Those who thought this was the path to getting 0bama out of office (and Biden in) were shown to be wrong.
EAT CROW AND LIKE IT!
So your crush on Ann Coulter means more to you than the Constitution? You have no opinion whether the birth certificate is fake or not. You can argue from either side, because it doesn’t matter to you. You can take the position that it’s fake (without actually believing that yourself) or take the position that it’s genuine (without actually believing that either) because you don’t care. All you care about is telling anyone who holds an opinion contrary to Ann Coulter’s to eat crow. Because you think somebody who disagreed with her was as immature as you, and threw her under the bus. You have no opinion whether the person occupying the Oval Office is Constitutionally eligible to do so, because you don’t care one way or the other. How sad.
It is about the birthers trying to use their pet issue (as you are) as a litmus test to find out who is ‘serious’ about the Constitution or mayhap a “liberal”.
How hypocritical for someone who falsely accused me of attributing to you statements you didn't make - to fill their next post with nothing but false positions attributed to me.
Again I thank Trump for effectively springing this trap before more zealots like you went all crazy on our candidates and insisted that they too take a stance that the documents are fraudulent - or they don't take the truth or the Constitution seriously!
I do care - that is why I have been on these threads for years now saying that if any argument held water it was the citizenship of the father argument - not that he wasn't REALLY born in Hawaii.
But instead it was all “Where is the Birth Certificate?”.
And they got what they wanted. Apparently what they wanted ended up being a GREAT BIG PILE OF CROW FOR THEM TO EAT.
I have said nothing about believing it or not - just that I have seen no credible source that says it is false.
Maybe to you “credible” means “NPR” or TV news, or perhaps talking heads on the radio, but if you actually want to learn something, try reading it, and if you find something inaccurate, you can post your comment. Saying that “the source isn’t credible” won’t do. Lots of useful and interesting comments on the thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2716165/posts
(Video)Graphic Artist Questions Obama Birth Cert. Says The Doc Has Been ‘Edited In Its Entirety’
KJCT 8 ^ | UPDATED: 1:54 am MDT May 5, 2011 | Don Coleman
Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 10:39:58 AM by Red Steel
GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. — Even after the White House offered up President Obama’s birth certificate, there are still those who are questioning it’s legitimacy.
One Grand Junction man who works as a graphic artist says he has discovered something strange about the certificate. “There’s no doubt that it has been edited and quite significantly,” James Colby said.
He’s been involved in graphic arts since 2004 and has never had a reason to doubt our president’s birthplace. In fact, he says he is politically independent. Yet, Colby says he can’t ignore the obvious.
After downloading the birth certificate straight off of the White House’s website, he started noticing the apparent flaws in a computer program called Adobe Illustrator.
“Legitimate digitized, scanned documents will always have [a] faded appearance... There are too many jagged features, here.” he said as the scoured the certificate. “So, it’s not a single document, it’s actually ‘compositive’ layers.”
Colby says scanned images should only have one digitized layer. He says President Obama’s birth certificate has almost 50 layers. “You can see the layers flash yourself just by rapidly zooming in and out in your web browser. That means that the browser is rendering different layers.”
Colby concedes that there are some instances where scanned images produce multiple layers. “It’s a program called OCR that converts text in the images into computer readable text,” he said. “But, it would never work on signatures. So, the fact that the signatures have been edited discounts the possibility of it being OCR.”
Colby continued pointing out the apparent problems. “You’ll notice the white background behind these letters, which is also super-imposed, actually covers up a little bit of the ‘D’ in this word,” he explained. “Even his name has been edited, all except for the ‘R’ in ‘Barack.’”
But, Colby can not figure out why the White House would release something so obvious. “The question is why is it so obvious,” he said. “Maybe the original certificate was damaged, maybe it was faded, maybe someone was just trying to clean it up. [But,] you’d think if that was the case, they would supply the original certificate just so there would be no suspicions.”
Colby says as strange as the edits are, they don’t prove a thing. But, he believes that they do point in one direction. “It’s definitely been edited in its entirety, so the indication would point to the probability of it being fake,” he said. “But, nobody can really make that claim.”
Colby isn’t alone in believing the birth certificate has been altered. Other graphic artists and various conservative groups from across the country are saying the same thing.
Thank you for posting that. Everyone I know of who looked at it noticed it’s a fake. I’m sure there are people who are fooled by it, but I haven’t met them.
If you thought any release was going to be a fraud - and yet when it came it and WAS a fraud (according to some) it STILL blew up IN YOUR FACE? Killing off half the movement?
You think Trump couldn't get to the bottom of an actual fraudulent document after making it his pet issue for his candidacy?
Are birthers going to now insist that all conservative commentators and candidates sign on to the idea that they are fake or they are to be discounted disparaged and discredited?
I warn you now that if you do: and there is a “need” - 0bama will release the video of his lawyer going to the Hawaii DOH and picking it up and putting it in front of the camera.
Are you counting on him not having it?
I mean if he didn't have it he could just fake it.
Right?
Any hints you can share?
One of these is not like the other.. allmendream, your liberal bias is apparently to everyone, even other liberals. Your puerile caps, telling "birthers" to eat crow, and so on, are merely the sad little shout-outs of a follower of a failed political agenda masquerading as high intellect - and very poorly. Having grown up in an ultra leftist and highly "intellectual" home, I recognize the odor of leftist arrogance combined with paucity of real rational thought. Ignoring facts, pretending that the argument is "won" already, heaping scorn upon others who disagree - it's all SOP for leftists.
In fact, every tactic you use is 100% predictable. Your kind - yes, you leftist types - refuse to look at the arguments - in this case, of why this latest "document" is a forgery and pick apart the arguments with your own points. Nosirree, it's "birther" this and "EAT CROW" that and "no credible source" BS. That's all you've got, is BS, and that is an insult to honest cow manure which is much more useful that the predictable and meaningless verbiage you're spewing.
Arguing from the future is never a good idea.
It’s not over yet.
Nothing has blown up in anyones’ face except Zero’s and it’s just the beginning of his downfall.
Oddly enough, more and more people here on FR who previously thought Zero was probably legitimate even thought loathesome, after the release of the second forged document now think he’s lying. To anyone who is not an avowed blind believer (or worse), it’s obviously a fraud.
Check out the thread I linked to and take it apart. I dare you.
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